Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

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brick911
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Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

I have a busy week, so as motivation to myself I'm posting a teaser pic to make sure I get around to the rest of it. *It was awesome... more to come.

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spllogics
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by spllogics »

Oh guess I can wait.. impatiently. :)
millside
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by millside »

well at least the snakes and rocks came out clear, but your group of white flowers is totally out of focus so maybe try a little harder next time, orrrr, it could be just alittle snake envy talking here :mrgreen: looks like you picked the right area,
hope Wes appreciates all the hard work the northeast chapter put in to steer you in the right area for his trip. :roll:
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by brick911 »

:lol: I'll shoot at F32 next time to make sure every flower is crystal clear.

The reason I ended up with PA was because we were invited to visit a hellbender research lab. Otherwise, I'd still probably be debating on where to go. :? That was awesome! I'll include all the details once I have enough time to get through all my pictures and make a post.
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spinifer
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by spinifer »

I'll include all the details once I have enough time to get through all my pictures and make a post.
Hopefully not All the details. ;)
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vincemartino
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by vincemartino »

Looks awesome :thumb:
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kirbyl4
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by kirbyl4 »

Baby timbers are so cool and that black phase is awesome. I still haven’t seen a all black one yet. Only one major problem though with this. From you photo it looks like you GOT WITHIN 10 FEET OF THESE SNAKES. That just isn’t allowed didn’t you know that. Any way awesome find glad you and you son had some luck and it looks like a lot.
ugh

Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by ugh »

brick911 wrote:I have a busy week, so as motivation to myself I'm posting a teaser pic to make sure I get around to the rest of it. *It was awesome... more to come.

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I'm sorry but am I realy the only one here willing to say this is just total b.s.?
The whole birthday thing,the ripping open a rookery-proud/cocky enough to show everyone too-you can't claim ignorance,as much as that horse has been beat here....wow I just find it kinda ridiculous.Why not use it as a chance to show your boy a more positive example of how to observe wildlife,you know,like on 'their terms,not ours'(e.g. when they're lying out for you to snap away with pics);respecting their habitat and sensitive times in their natural life cycle,etc....Really,you had to use a postartum female with her brand spankin' new litter huh?Awesome.Hey it was just for your son right?What,did he post these pics,or ask you to for him on his birthday?
Ah Forget it.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by brick911 »

Yup... just for my son.
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Doug W.
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by Doug W. »

ugh wrote: I'm sorry but am I really the only one here willing to say this is just total b.s.?
The whole birthday thing,the ripping open a rookery-proud/cocky enough to show everyone too-you can't claim ignorance,as much as that horse has been beat here....wow I just find it kinda ridiculous.Why not use it as a chance to show your boy a more positive example of how to observe wildlife,you know,like on 'their terms,not ours'(e.g. when they're lying out for you to snap away with pics);respecting their habitat and sensitive times in their natural life cycle,etc....Really,you had to use a postartum female with her brand spankin' new litter huh?Awesome.Hey it was just for your son right?What,did he post these pics,or ask you to for him on his birthday?
Ah Forget it.
Like you didn't see this coming?!
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vincemartino
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by vincemartino »

The he killed them all, skinned em up, stewed em down and gave his boy a realllll treat. New pair of boots and Timber Stew!
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KingCam
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by KingCam »

Yeah, you shouldn't have done that. I find that if you pour gasoline down their holes they'll just come out without you having to bother them too much.
ugh

Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by ugh »

Vince I'll say the same to you,don't bother sending me anymore secretive,feeble pm's saying you 'basically agree with me' or whatever if you're gonna go publicly mocking me next time I express the same point of view.Yeah that's right,no more agreeing with me,you're not allowed,next time just save it, lol.
Ok guys as you were.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by brick911 »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm working on the full post now. For those who want to, feel free to condemn me afterwards. I'm not hiding. Whatever.
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vincemartino
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by vincemartino »

ugh wrote:Vince I'll say the same to you,don't bother sending me anymore secretive,feeble pm's saying you 'basically agree with me' or whatever if you're gonna go publicly mocking me next time I express the same point of view.Yeah that's right,no more agreeing with me,you're not allowed,next time just save it, lol.
Ok guys as you were.
What the pm where I said you need to learn how to talk to people? I wasn't trying to insult you there or here, unless you so mindlessly believed my statement and went ape shit because you thought he was ACTUALLY eating all the Timber Rattlesnakes. If that's the case I am terribly sorry, I was only trying to inject a smidgeon of humor into the post before you elevate your attack to the next level.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion

Post by brick911 »

Ok... On to the entire day:

We had a meeting around 10:00 with Dr. Petokas (more on that later), so we drove around in the morning basically looking for creeks as Springs were high on the priority list. The creeks I found produced nothing, and my hands practically froze off as it was 35 degrees out. We managed to flip one redbelly at one spot, and found a basking garter about an hour later when it was a smoldering 42 degrees! ...oh and a bunch of redbacks, not pictured.

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After our early morning freeze, we moved on to the college where Dr. Petokas teaches. I had been in contact with him regarding hellbenders. He does a ton of research both in the lab, and out in the field. In fact, he was scuba diving for them that afternoon!

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If you can spot the picture of the gray-haired fellow, that's Dr. Petokas holding a 25" bender.

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In the lab, he was awesome with Wes and full of a ton of knowledge. Most impressively, he was able to dumb it down for me. :) Here's a pic of Wes holding a Spotted and Jefferson salamander he had in his possession.

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He had a few varying hellbenders in the lab. This was a 3 year old.

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This one had Chytrid. We dropped a few crayfish in the tank and he showed interest, but would not eat in time for the professor to get to his first class.

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As if hellbenders aren't cool enough, we got to meet a healthy, Chytrid-free YELLOW hellbender. I don't if you'd call it an albino or what, but this thing was fascinating, big, and strong! If you've never had the privilege of holding one, I was astonished at the strength of these guys. Combine that with how slippery they are, and you need to be very careful.

I assumed Dr. P had found this as a juvy, but it turns out he found it last year as a full-fledged adult. I'm fascinated that a yellow hellbender made it that long in the wild.

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We made a great contact with a man who talks the talk and walks the walk. He is working with Chytrid. They are looking at other possible diseases affecting the populations. In NY state, and hopefully elsewhere soon, they are working to create new habitat for the benders. Soon these creatures will be federally listed. Despite PA having decent populations, they are in rapid decline.

He has requested records from our database, and I will be going through the protocol soon. We don't have many records, so I will be putting a call out for more on the main forum before starting the data release procedures. Hopefully, there are people out there sitting on records that I can convince to enter into the database to be released in bulk to a very important person in the conservation of the species.

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After that, we were on cloud nine and felt privileged to hold and interact with living dinosaurs. We had one more meeting planned for the day, and moved onto our next priority...

Ripping timbers from the ground! JK Justin. :thumb:

Anyway, we were meeting a herpetologist who has permits to work with, handle, and move timbers and copperheads in both PA and NJ. (*If any of this is wrong, he can correct me.) His name is Phil. He had been working on a mountain top as he was contracted to survey for timbers. Basically, there were gaslines being put over the mountain. If he wishes, he can chime in later with the full details that I really can't completely grasp. It's interesting nonetheless.

So after giving me the spot and a wrong turn or two, I found Phil and followed him off road further up the mountain to a strip mine. We walked the habitat and turned up 21 timbers in all! There were probably more babies, but the 21 was what we agreed on actually seeing.

This first female was neither post-partum nor gravid, and Phil tubed her for us so we could get a closer look. Something was definitely wrong with her eye.

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As I'm sure Justin's head is about to explode right now, I would like to reiterate that I don't handle venomous any longer. This was basically a chance to do so under permitted supervision. Sorry, I'm not gonna pass that up. None of the post-partum females were tubed, some rocks were not flipped, and I put all my trust into the permit-holding individual as to what was allowable and not. He's seen 100's this year alone, and I have a clear conscious for doing so. *Other permit-holding individuals may adopt a different attitude. I didn't herp with them.

This was our first baby, and although excited, I wanted to see one out and about.

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We flipped this American Toad.

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I spotted this individual poking its head out. No sex was determined, as as to many's surprise, I didn't rip this one from under the rock.

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These red boxes were everywhere. Apparently they are used for seismic testing. I'm guessing it has something to do with installing gas pipelines.

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Phil spotted the first babies that were clearly in view. We lost about 5-6 down in the crack, but a few hung around long enough for a pic or two. There were no adults in site at the time.

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These things are nearly impossible to see amongst vegetation. We treaded lightly.

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I'm happy to say I was walking, scanning, hoping, when I spotted another baby. Phil came over and flipped two rocks and we found the jackpot. About 8 babies, and two post-partum females. Here's Phil in action...

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Try as I did, I could not find a milk here. The only other snake was a ringneck. Woohoo!

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This snake was last year's young. It shot out from under a rock right in front of me as we were walking. That was easy. :)

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This was the last timber of the day.

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Habitat

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Wes and Phil - many thanks!

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After this we headed Northbound about another hour. I had been to an area before with Kyle two years ago that simply killed! This time was no exception. Most of these snakes were flipped at his spot. Maybe 9-10 were flipped elsewhere, but in the same area. I'm just gonna vomit all these pictures up. Some were posed, some are as flipped, others are in hand as I grabbed for quick voucher shots.

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As I flipped one side of the road, Wes worked the other one. When I looked back, I saw him laying in the road (not one other car in 90 minutes) and noticed he had a heap of snakes. He did a fine job of wrangling them all into one spot. I was impressed.

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I flipped a rock on a rock, and this individual was already posed for me. How nice.

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After all was said and done, we decided to head back South toward a spot we would have gotten to earlier if we didn't spend as much productive time with Phil and Dr. Petokas. I was hopeful for mainly milks and black rats here, with a consolation prize of timbers. Well... we struck out on all those goals. It was past five and getting cooler by the minute. We flipped our first brown of the day though.

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...along with more garters and redbellies. I think six in all.

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I'm thinking racer eggs?

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And black rat sheds in two different spots, but no naked owners.

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I also spotted three pickerels out in a moist part of the field, but quite a ways from any creek.

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Well, that was it. We decided to call it a day, but to get to our truck we had to pass by a creek. I wasn't hopeful, but Wes asked and I said why not? Man, was I wrong. We were able to add three more species to the day, two were new for the year, and one was a lifer for both of us, unless you count an inch long larvae two years back. I don't. :|

Green frog

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Mountain Duskies (first of the year... first 100 or so of the year - these things were everywhere!)

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And the icing on the cake. After us spotting and letting six get in and out of our hands, we were able to catch an adult Spring Salamander! What a beast. This would have made my day alone, even if we hadn't had all the luck and success from earlier.

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Here's Wes putting it back, and that wraps up our 3rd annual birthday herping trip!

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It was an awesome day. With the kids living two hours away, I never get time alone with just one anymore. This day was needed for both of us, I think. I asked him if he'd do this every year with me... even when he was a teenager. :lol: He said, of course - he'll like it even more.

Yeah... we'll see.

Happy 10th Birthday Wes! My first child.
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KingCam
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by KingCam »

What a fantastic trip! Your son is a lucky boy to have someone as dedicated as you teaching them about reptiles/amphibians. :thumb: :beer:
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by Brendan Murray »

Fantastic Post!
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VanAR
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by VanAR »

Great post!


.... and I'll just leave this here...

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ugh

Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by ugh »

Brick I probably owe you an apology.The look on your boy's face is pretty priceless and says it all-looks like that dude's the real deal,a herper at heart.

I am admittedly prone to jump to cynical conclusions. And I may not like/agree with/see the need in flipping rocks at an active TR rookery but it was wrong for me to question your motives.Having your boy truly share your passion for herps is awesome. That's a great age he's at,all fun and games. Sounds like you're probably just trying to pump him full of info and positive learning experiences while you've got his attention, I'd be doing the same.
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by vincemartino »

I'm sure Wes had the best birthday any ten year old herper could ask for, let alone probably one of the most memorable days of his life! Looks like you really put in some serious effort on this day, and it definitely paid off, great work and great oppurtunities.

I'm just drooling at the variety you had on one day. :thumb:
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Siobhan
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by Siobhan »

Incredible photos! It looks like you guys had an amazing time. I'm glad you chose PA :thumb:

Man that guy Phil is a little too close to those timbers for my comfort. I'd be way to nervous to get that close, especially with all those babies!
Notread
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by Notread »

Great post, Bob! What a kick ass birthday day. Glad the trip worked out like you planned. Sure beats looking at duskies in the N. VA mountains. :)

BTW, Phil is an awesome person!
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kirbyl4
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by kirbyl4 »

I love all the red bellies the really light brown one is really cool. Seriously though you have to tell me your trick for finding greens I have found 3 rough and no smooth’s this year. I guess they aren’t as prominent in some of the areas I’m going or I just am having some really bad luck. I am also glad to see some people have given a little more mature responses with some jokes added to a timber posting rather than flying totally off the handle head first into a fan. Anyway glad you and your son had a awesome day. No when ever you go out with him its gana be really hard to top that start planning for next year. :D
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

ugh wrote:Brick I probably owe you an apology.The look on your boy's face is pretty priceless and says it all-looks like that dude's the real deal,a herper at heart.

I am admittedly prone to jump to cynical conclusions. And I may not like/agree with/see the need in flipping rocks at an active TR rookery but it was wrong for me to question your motives.Having your boy truly share your passion for herps is awesome. That's a great age he's at,all fun and games. Sounds like you're probably just trying to pump him full of info and positive learning experiences while you've got his attention, I'd be doing the same.
You feeling ok? :lol:

Nah man, apology accepted and appreciated. It's funny... He went and checked out some old field guide from his school library for the day. Meanwhile, he knows every species. Even on the species we don't come across, he's better with range maps than I am!
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

vincemartino wrote:I'm sure Wes had the best birthday any ten year old herper could ask for, let alone probably one of the most memorable days of his life! Looks like you really put in some serious effort on this day, and it definitely paid off, great work and great oppurtunities.

I'm just drooling at the variety you had on one day. :thumb:
Despite only about a quarter of the snakes being found at spots I scoped out, the day was definitely very productive feeling. If he doesn't remember it forever, I surely will.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

Siobhan wrote:Incredible photos! It looks like you guys had an amazing time. I'm glad you chose PA :thumb:

Man that guy Phil is a little too close to those timbers for my comfort. I'd be way to nervous to get that close, especially with all those babies!
I'll tell ya what. Watching Phil work was something else. The guy breathes timbers and it showed. What a pro. I can't thank him enough.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

Notread wrote:Great post, Bob! What a kick ass birthday day. Glad the trip worked out like you planned. Sure beats looking at duskies in the N. VA mountains. :)

BTW, Phil is an awesome person!
:lol: Sure does. I'm sure I could have flipped a ringneck though. :P

Thanks Jeff!
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by DIAMONDBACK DAVE »

Brick, It might be best not to make flipping rookery rocks a habit..... Once in a great while is fine, but physically disturbing snakes and their refugia can have both short and long terms affects on the snakes in the areas u visit. I know u dont see many Trs and it may be fun, just dont make it a habit out of respect for the snakes even though it wasnt you who was doing the flipping there!...Not trying to come down hard on judgement .....Great job on teaching young ones , just be shure you demonstrate (by ur actions) that wildlife is not just for our enjoyment in pursuit, capture or killing, but have intrinsic value that can only be appreciated by observing and not selfishly disturbing them......Aside from that I think everyone can agree u have nice arms...

DBD
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

kirbyl4 wrote:I love all the red bellies the really light brown one is really cool. Seriously though you have to tell me your trick for finding greens I have found 3 rough and no smooth’s this year. I guess they aren’t as prominent in some of the areas I’m going or I just am having some really bad luck. I am also glad to see some people have given a little more mature responses with some jokes added to a timber posting rather than flying totally off the handle head first into a fan. Anyway glad you and your son had a awesome day. No when ever you go out with him its gana be really hard to top that start planning for next year. :D
The green spot was proven by Kyle and I gave him a heads up that I might be going depending on my luck/time available. Unfortunately, I can't say I found any greens outside of his area, although I have found them on my own in that county before... just not this time. :oops:

You're right... this is gonna be hard as hell to top. We've already talked a little about what to do next year, but for now its on to planning my soon-to-be 8 year old son's special Bday-day.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

DIAMONDBACK DAVE wrote:Brick, It might be best not to make flipping rookery rocks a habit..... Once in a great while is fine, but physically disturbing snakes and their refugia can have both short and long terms affects on the snakes in the areas u visit. I know u dont see many Trs and it may be fun, just dont make it a habit out of respect for the snakes.. Great job on teaching young ones , just be shure you demonstrate (by ur actions) that wildlife is not just for our enjoyment in pursuit, capture or killing, but have intrinsic value that can only be appreciated by observing and not selfishly disturbing them......Aside from that I think everyone can agree u have nice arms...

DBD

Thanks DBD. No worries. We are completely hands off with venomous (usually) and my kids have seen timbers on at least a dozen different occasions with no disturbing despite sometimes flighty males that take off at the first smell of human. I hooked my first timber years ago, and yes... Wes was there for that one too. But he's seen me change, and I'm teaching him as I learn along the way. Life is a journey, not an end result.

I read your post on the roadcruising invite and shook my head at the computer, wishing I wasn't tied to a job.

Thanks, I got my arms by curling timbers. :crazyeyes:
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Siobhan
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by Siobhan »

I can't get over the coloring on the that one timber with the golden rattle. Was it that golden in person? Or is it a trick of the camera? Those timbers were prettier than any I've ever seen.
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Siobhan
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by Siobhan »

brick911 wrote:
You feeling ok? :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Matt J
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by Matt J »

Damn good thing you went down to check that stream on the way out, that spring sal is awesome.

Oh yeah, and I envy your smooth green finds, one of these days... :crazyeyes:
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KingCam
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by KingCam »

brick911 wrote:Thanks, I got my arms by curling timbers. :crazyeyes:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumb: :beer:
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by dragoncjo »

Nice posts Brick, moments to be cherished for sure.

I hope the rules of herping that we preach on here get applied to everyone, even those with a permit.

Brick was the bender with chrytrid given the fungus intentionally or was it found with it in the wild?
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by spllogics »

Nice post. :thumb:

I know Phil, cool guy def. loves his timbers.

That yellow hellbender is sweet. I have read some news articles a while back on Dr. Petokas an talked though email a few times.
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by incuhead2000 »

Ok first off.....that yellow hellbender is so frigging ugly I LOVE IT! It is sad what is happening to them, and I'm really glad you got to take your son to such a neat place. Heck, as an adult I've visited research labs (some of the ones I saw in brazil were pretty cool) and am always excited so I can only imagine how your son must have felt! Looks like you had a great trip, and it is amazing to see how variable the timbers habitat can be....since these snakes used to occupy the lands as far east as the Atlantic and have been extripated by people. I think it would be super awesome to see them in the sand flats when I herp south and eastern MD but I guess reintroducing these guys is just outta the question! It is interesting to see them under those rocks with their babies, not what I would except to flip! I've only flipped two venomous snakes ever, both copperheads. One was this year and was a bit unnerving because this piece of tin yielded a garter the last three times I flipped it! Anyway I'm story telling now...looks like you both had an awesome time, hope to get out with you one of these days!

P.s. Is it possible the shed you pictured belongs to a timber? Doesn't look like rat to me but I've been wrong before.

-Mike
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

dragoncjo wrote:Nice posts Brick, moments to be cherished for sure.

I hope the rules of herping that we preach on here get applied to everyone, even those with a permit.

Brick was the bender with chrytrid given the fungus intentionally or was it found with it in the wild?
Well, there were things and rocks he wouldn't try to lift. He seemed to have a real feel for what he should and shouldn't do, and acted accordingly. Like I said, I felt comfortable in deferring to him. He has a lot of leverage in the state with timbers. I'm guessing for good reason.

The Chytrid bender was found in the wild. I can try to find out more.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

Siobhan wrote:I can't get over the coloring on the that one timber with the golden rattle. Was it that golden in person? Or is it a trick of the camera? Those timbers were prettier than any I've ever seen.
No maam... These were all natural light shots. Those timbers were all amazing in that one double flip. That's what made it even more intense. It was a perfect representation of a few phases. I felt extremely lucky.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

Matt J wrote:Damn good thing you went down to check that stream on the way out, that spring sal is awesome.

Oh yeah, and I envy your smooth green finds, one of these days... :crazyeyes:
You should have seen it. We were so tired. We left at 3:00 am. It was now past 6:00 pm. I was almost like ehh... what are we gonna find, stupid two-lineds and more pickerel frogs??? I flipped about 20 mountain duskies between us both and we perked up a bit. Then when I flipped the first spring (that got away), it was like someone injected speed into our brains. We were back to life in an instant. :lol:
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

spllogics wrote:Nice post. :thumb:

I know Phil, cool guy def. loves his timbers.

That yellow hellbender is sweet. I have read some news articles a while back on Dr. Petokas an talked though email a few times.
Dr. Petokas mentioned paherps. He has a lot of stuff written on his work. It is all pretty vague news articles though. I guess that's better. ...don't want to get too detailed.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

incuhead2000 wrote:Ok first off.....that yellow hellbender is so frigging ugly I LOVE IT! It is sad what is happening to them, and I'm really glad you got to take your son to such a neat place. Heck, as an adult I've visited research labs (some of the ones I saw in brazil were pretty cool) and am always excited so I can only imagine how your son must have felt! Looks like you had a great trip, and it is amazing to see how variable the timbers habitat can be....since these snakes used to occupy the lands as far east as the Atlantic and have been extripated by people. I think it would be super awesome to see them in the sand flats when I herp south and eastern MD but I guess reintroducing these guys is just outta the question! It is interesting to see them under those rocks with their babies, not what I would except to flip! I've only flipped two venomous snakes ever, both copperheads. One was this year and was a bit unnerving because this piece of tin yielded a garter the last three times I flipped it! Anyway I'm story telling now...looks like you both had an awesome time, hope to get out with you one of these days!

P.s. Is it possible the shed you pictured belongs to a timber? Doesn't look like rat to me but I've been wrong before.

-Mike
Agreed. That yellow one was simply gnarly looking. :lol:

I would say black rat. The keels seemed week. Timbers are definitely there too though. I just got there a little too late in the day to find any, I suppose. I've seen them there before.
flip3238
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by flip3238 »

I want to re-iterate to certain people out there that these snakes were NOT at a gestation/rookery site. Both the yellow and black post partums AND their litters had moved about 100 yards from where they were all summer..at the rookery. The potential denning area was about 50 feet above where these snakes were found, and the rocks they were under were literally dinner-plate sized and something you would expect a milk or a few red-bellies to be under. Some neonates, the yellow female under the rock, and the non-gravid I tubed with the infected eye were near the rookery, and none were removed and no rocks were disturbed in that area. The non gravid was layed out and made for an easy grab with the hook, otherwise she would have been left alone. I would never condone the ripping apart of a rookery or a denning area, and am confident that the minor disturbances we made will not effect these snakes. Im glad we saw what we saw though...quite frankly Bob and Wes coming up gave me the excuse and motivation to go looking for the potential denning area. Glad I was able to finally meet Bob and also give Wes a memorable bday.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

Yes it was good to finally meet Phil regardless of field-success. And when he was able to juggle those four baby timbers, we were amazed! I mean, three I could see. But four? Well done!
...like they were bowling pins.
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Mike VanValen
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by Mike VanValen »

Nice report. I'm glad Phil was able to show you a few snakes :thumb:

I'm sure your son will remember that day forever, even if he loses interest down the line.
ugh

Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by ugh »

flip3238 wrote: Both the yellow and black post partums AND their litters had moved about 100 yards from where they were all summer..at the rookery. .
Not that it matters a whole lot at this point-I already said my piece-but in the photo the neonates definitely appeared to be preshed-indicating those rocks was in fact their actual birthing site,regardless of where their moms had been hanging out all summer.That being the case, those mom(s) were in a heavy state of recuperation, that probably topping the the list of well-known worst times to really disturb a snake. Which was exactly, my original point. Not the end of the world,just something I wouldn't do nor encourage others to do.

There is in fact a rhyme and reason to what is percieved by some as wanton ranting.
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by dragoncjo »

Phil, not questioning ethics here as i dont know you. This is strictly a behavior question. Did the mom's with neos shift out from the rook prior to birth or after? Ive always witnessed a last minute shift about 1 week or so prior to birth. I have theories on why but not totally sure.
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brick911
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by brick911 »

Mike VanValen wrote:Nice report. I'm glad Phil was able to show you a few snakes :thumb:

I'm sure your son will remember that day forever, even if he loses interest down the line.
Thanks Mike. I'm sure he will too. I don't think he'll lose interest. It'll probably go into hibernation through his teens, but I think its sincere. He seeks this stuff out without me. As for my other kids, I think they go and have fun, but only because its with me. I don't see either of them being full-fledged herpers. That's my guess anyway.

...Phil hooked it up.
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snakegirl24
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Re: Wesley's 10th Birthday Herp Excursion - FULL REPORT

Post by snakegirl24 »

Awesome pics!! Looove the hellbenders! That is soo cool! I soo hope my son will end up having the same passion as me
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