Are these FIELD HERPERS?

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peterknuteberg
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Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by peterknuteberg » October 6th, 2011, 6:12 pm

I have seen a number of definitions of FIELD HERPERS, so I thought it would interesting to see whether you think all of these people are FIELD HERPERS or not?
Which of these are “field herpers” and which are not and why?
1) Image

2) Image

3) Image
[Assuming that this photo refers to a guy who catches Rattlesnakes for the Sweetwater Texas Rattlesnake Roundup.]
4) Image

5) Image
[Collecting for the pet trade]
6) Image
[Collecting for food]
7) Image
[Collecting for food and skin]
8) Image
[Kids admiring herps]
9) Image

10) [Doing a survey in Kansas—collecting herps to take DNA and to verify species in previously undocumented counties]
Image
:beer:

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gbin
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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by gbin » October 6th, 2011, 6:21 pm

A picture of someone with one or more herps in hand doesn't really allow me to answer your question, Peter. If someone was pursuing herps afield - for whatever reason - then yes, they were field herping, and if they weren't but instead just came across and picked up said herp(s), then no, they weren't. That's my take on it.

So, are you now going to respond to the related thread that I started?... :)

Gerry

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by crocdoc » October 6th, 2011, 6:34 pm

I have a name for the first four, but I doubt the forum moderators would allow me to post it here. :)

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by peterknuteberg » October 6th, 2011, 6:40 pm

Since I agree with John who stated that Field herping is:
“the act of looking for and finding wild herps”, regardless of what happens after you find them.
I would say that all of the above pictures represent "field herpers" assuming that all of the above were looking for an finding wild herps.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Daryl Eby » October 6th, 2011, 6:48 pm

While all of them could technically be described as field herping, there are several that I would not call "field herpers". I also suspect that many of them would not claim the title. However, if any of them claim the term, I certainly would not dispute it.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Dell Despain » October 6th, 2011, 7:47 pm

#1. Yes, he was a field herper.

Image

#2. Yes, Love him or hate him, he is a field herper.
Image

#3.Yes, and I hate everything he does.
Image

#4. Nope, not a field herper, he's a dumb-ass. Sorry but a spades a spade.
Image

#5. Probably not a field herper. He's just a guy doing his job.
Image

#6. No, they're just kids trying to live.
Image

#7. Again no, trying to make a living.... for better or worse.
Image

#8. Same as #6 they've just grown up now.
Image

#9. Not yet. But headed in the right direction.
Image

#10. I would say most if not all are indeed field herpers. Well that guy in the back row third in to the left is a beer drinker first, herper second. And now that I look at it the guy third in to the right is also a beer drinker first.
Image

-Dell

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by ErikNM » October 6th, 2011, 7:49 pm

Just as taking pictures doesn't make you a photographer, or cooking some food doesn't make you a chef. Some of them are field herpers, some aren't.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by peterknuteberg » October 7th, 2011, 4:19 am

Part of getting a good definition is applying it to cases. So, if some of these are not Field Herpers, which ones are they and why? This will help to define the term.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Retes » October 7th, 2011, 5:09 am

I am not sure about any of them. Herper is short for herpetologist, which is the study of reptiles and amphibians. Are any of them studying herps, academically or otherwise.

Otherwise could be applied to me, as the product of my field work is to apply that knowledge to the betterment of reptiles in captivity. Which is not academic.

I have also published in academic journals, so I am also that kind of herper.

But then herping as used here is also not about either of those areas. It could mean going in the field, which I am not sure a highway is the field, and photographing reptiles.

ALso, I am not sure its herpetology to run around and record every herp you see and inter it into the data base here. When many of those reptiles are in parks and ponds, and pet shops. Which I have personally witnessed. I would think that data should be restricted to herps in their natural habitat. Or even with invasives, as in, having established a population. But not counting reptiles in peoples cages, if they are outdoors.

Ok, I had my first cup of coffee. Cheers

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by FunkyRes » October 7th, 2011, 5:15 am

I agree with Dell.

And I'm not ashamed to say I enjoyed Steve Irwin.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by MonarchzMan » October 7th, 2011, 5:46 am

FunkyRes wrote:I agree with Dell.

And I'm not ashamed to say I enjoyed Steve Irwin.
Steve Irwin is, in large part, the reason why I am pursuing a degree studying herps. Like him or hate him, it is undeniable that he brought more attention and appreciation to the things "that crawl," according to Linnaeus, than anyone else past or present.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Jeremiah_Easter » October 7th, 2011, 6:25 am

Dell said it best :thumb:

I'll ad this: There are fisherman and there are sport-fisherman. A field herper is akin to a sport-fisherman, not a regular fisherman.

People collecting for food, income are snake hunters/reptile collectors, not field herpers IMHO.

@frank - Herper is not short for herpetologist anymore than birder is short for ornithologist.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by peterknuteberg » October 7th, 2011, 6:42 am

Herper is short for herpetologist, which is the study of reptiles and amphibians
The term "herper" is minus the "tologist". Think about it, "Proctologist, Psychologist, Neurologist, Biologist, Zoologist, .......

The term is not "field herpetologist", it is " field herper". Taking things literally, the term "herper" does not include a "study of" suffix. The term "herper" is more like the term, "biker", "hiker", "birder" .

I agree however, that the connotation of "herper" may bring up images of scientists and people who are dedicated to studying herps in the field.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by peterknuteberg » October 7th, 2011, 6:44 am

@frank - Herper is not short for herpetologist anymore than birder is short for ornithologist.
Jeremiah, you beat me to it.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Cole Grover » October 7th, 2011, 7:01 am

Peter,

In the broad, most-literal sense of the term, I'd say, "Yes, they're all field herpers if they actively pursued those herps in the field." Now, with that said, I find some of the outcomes of their field herping deplorable, some irritating, some encouraging, some entirely neutral, etc. There are a lot of things going on in the outcomes of those field herping exploits - some of which I really loathe being associated with (i.e., Sweetwater - grrrrr...). Just as some sport fishermen keep the occasional (or more) fish at the end of the day, some field herpers collect occasionally (... or more frequently).

-Cole

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by gbin » October 7th, 2011, 7:15 am

peterknuteberg wrote:
@frank - Herper is not short for herpetologist anymore than birder is short for ornithologist.
Jeremiah, you beat me to it.
I third or fourth that (whatever it's up to). As I see it, a herpetologist is a professional or at the very least takes a very formal, structured approach to the study of herps, whereas a herper is pursuing a less formal (but maybe still quite structured) interest in herps.

Gerry

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by teter247 » October 7th, 2011, 7:38 am

The term "herper" is minus the "tologist". Think about it, "Proctologist, Psychologist, Neurologist, Biologist, Zoologist, .......
So are hobbyist proctologists Procters?

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Coluber Constrictor » October 7th, 2011, 7:43 am

People like Bear Grylls (if that's who the guy is in photo #3) or rattlesnake roundup people are NOT field herpers as they have no interest in herpetology.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by peterknuteberg » October 7th, 2011, 7:52 am

Peter,
In the broad, most-literal sense of the term, I'd say, "Yes, they're all field herpers if they actively pursued those herps in the field." Now, with that said, I find some of the outcomes of their field herping deplorable, some irritating, some encouraging, some entirely neutral, etc. There are a lot of things going on in the outcomes of those field herping exploits - some of which I really loathe being associated with (i.e., Sweetwater - grrrrr...). Just as some sport fishermen keep the occasional (or more) fish at the end of the day, some field herpers collect occasionally (... or more frequently).

-Cole
Cole, I couldn't agree more that some of these activities are deplorable. This is why I think it is so important for us to also foster "ethics" regarding field herping, which CHAD and so many others have been doing. I suspect that Ethics can be broken down into different subgroups, such as "the ethics of collecting" etc.

I certainly don't have all the answers and can only share my feelings.

As the photos suggest, it is hard to tell a guy who is close to starving in Africa, that it is wrong to kill that snake when he will probably use every part of it. It even seems hard to tell a boy who is perhaps hungry that it is wrong to collect a snake for the pet trade. Yet, I am concerned for conservation in the developing and third world.

On the other hand, when Bear Grylls kills herps in about half of the episodes, I ask myself, is this really necessary? Does he really need to eat or is this about the show, about making money? Isn't he kind of a showman, like the guys in Sweetwater? However, I am not sure that I want to wholesale condemn him for it, since I eat meat, fish, poultry. However, Bear disturbs me and makes me ask questions, which I have not been able to completely resolve.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Cole Grover » October 7th, 2011, 7:58 am

peterknuteberg wrote: On the other hand, when Bear Grylls kills herps in about half of the episodes, I ask myself, is this really necessary? Does he really need to eat or is this about the show, about making money? Isn't he kind of a showman, like the guys in Sweetwater? However, I am not sure that I want to wholesale condemn him for it, since I eat meat, fish, poultry. However, Bear disturbs me and makes me ask questions, which I have not been able to completely resolve.
Boy howdy - you and I are in just about 100% agreement, there! I also agree that having an ethics statement (or guidelines, or whatever we call it) is a fan-friggin'-tastic idea. I think it should be fairly easy for people to agree on big ticket items, too... so long as we don't get caught up in the details. Those damn details are what always get us, aren't they?

-Cole

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Retes » October 7th, 2011, 11:20 am

I guess its whatever you want it to be. but, way back in the dark ages when I was young.(When I was young, EB and the animals)

the term was based on field herpetologist, As there was zero or very little of what this forum does.

Then COLLECTOR, was a new interested in the field, as before that, there was no value in snakes(herps)

Then commerical collector, was coined, as a living could be made from HERPS in the field.

I think there are many good folks interested in Herps here, but it appears to me many other GOOD folks are using herps as a social event. Which I think is what many are afraid of. Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing the matter with that.

If you watch this forum, its very easy to see. Which I guess is why Ethics are needed now. Cheers

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Curtis Hart » October 7th, 2011, 12:09 pm

Dell Despain wrote: #9. Not yet. But headed in the right direction.
Image


-Dell
I know this is minor, but I would disagree and say yes to this one. I certainly went looking for frogs and turtles on my own when I was that young. I couldn't leave the yard, but I would still find frogs.

Curtis

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by ebs121781 » October 7th, 2011, 12:25 pm

Curtis Hart wrote:I know this is minor, but I would disagree and say yes to this one. I certainly went looking for frogs and turtles on my own when I was that young. I couldn't leave the yard, but I would still find frogs.

Curtis
And you probably learned a ton, because starting off with nothing, you had a lot to learn through the studying that you were doing.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by JDM » October 7th, 2011, 12:55 pm

Field Herpers are people who search for herps in the field.

The photos of those selling herps in a marketplace are not field herping. Some of the photos are of people who are very primitive field herpers. Others are herpers that are field herping for show business. The guys who field herp for rattlesnake roundups are also field herpers, just not the sort that many of us would consider ethical field herpers.

Ethics is a topic for another thread, once we can mostly agree upon what field herping is.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by jonathan » October 7th, 2011, 3:50 pm

Retes wrote:If you watch this forum, its very easy to see. Which I guess is why Ethics are needed now. Cheers
Back in the good 'ol days, ethics clearly were not needed.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Ted » October 7th, 2011, 3:58 pm

I think that a field herper is anyone who goes out to look for herps. However, I don't think that people who kill said herps are field herpers.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Jeremiah_Easter » October 7th, 2011, 7:29 pm

Exactly my thoughts Ted.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by ErikNM » October 7th, 2011, 8:03 pm

Field herper is someone who looks for herps because they enjoy it. They may take only photographs, observe, or collect for personal collection. Someone who collects them to sell for money is a commercial collector. Someone who enjoys nature and finds many things including herps is a naturalist. I've had friends come along when I went herping and although they were herping as well, they are not field herpers. Just because I posed for a picture, doesn't make me a model.

At least that's my two pesos...

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Daryl Eby » October 7th, 2011, 8:22 pm

ErikNM wrote:Just because I posed for a picture, doesn't make me a model.
Poser ! 8-)

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Serpentes » October 8th, 2011, 3:07 am

crocdoc wrote:I have a name for the first four, but I doubt the forum moderators would allow me to post it here. :)
If it starts with F and ends with T, I completely agree (although there are innumerable other adequate words).

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by -EJ » October 8th, 2011, 3:12 am

I think the word showed up as the hobby exploded in the late 60s to early 70s... maybe stemming from the word 'herpetoculture'. I can't see a herpetologist bastardizing the title after putting that much work into obtaining the title... at least not the old timers I had the pleasure of meeting.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by peterknuteberg » October 8th, 2011, 4:49 am

I think that a field herper is anyone who goes out to look for herps. However, I don't think that people who kill said herps are field herpers.
The last photo shows Joe Colllins and a group of people I believe are "field herpers" from the KHS. Several herpetologists were also involved, including Travis Taggert and Dan Foggel. I am in the photo as well as a number of people from this forum. The purpose of the survey was to field herp variouos counties in Kansas and find out what was there. The survey included collecting (with permits) specimens for professional herpetologists. Probably most of the animals were not collected but simply counted, photographed and observed. However, some of the specimens were collected and would later be killed for scientific purposes including vouchers, DNA sampling and other reasons. I believed that there was a higher purpose here which justified the killing of a few specimens. We in fact extended the range for several species, including Crotalus horridus. As believe that we were "field herping" for the purpose of some animals later being killed for the purpose of science and herpetology. These KHS trips go on every Fall and Spring and is some great field herping.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Andy Avram » October 8th, 2011, 6:22 am

Good topic, unfortunately, there are too many parallel threads right now, and I can’t remember who said/what in which thread. I am double posting this here and in Gerry's thread.

Regardless, I think we are on the right track to define what “Field Herping” (also in my mind, and the following post, synonymous with “Herping”) is, and I do agree it is important that this activity, as in any activity, has a proper term.

To begin with, I see this term defining a hobby and state of mind, nothing more nothing less. I also see this equivalent to a mixture of birding, with a dash of fishing. A deeper look why:

A hobby is an activity someone does for fun on their own time. This means that professional herpetologists are not necessarily “Field Herping” when they are out collecting data. They are working. To illustrate this point, run into a herpetologist in the field and ask them what they are doing. They are not going to say “herping” “field herping” or any other synonym. They are going to tell you “working”, “collecting data for their research”, etc… Just like an ornithologist isn’t really birding or bird watching when they are doing their work, or an ichthyologist is not going to say fishing if they are collecting fish for research. But, the fact that they are collecting research and working doesn’t mean they aren’t also “field herping”, “birding”, etc… at the same time. For example, if you are collecting data on Lake Erie Water Snakes, you are also getting some field herping time in when you observe other non-research herp species. So, if you are not a professional herpetologists and you are still “Field Herping” even if you are collecting data for some reason, because you are doing it for fun on your own time (this is where part of the “state of mind” part I mentioned earlier comes into play).

Birding is a pastime activity where people go out to appreciate birds in the wild. It ranges the gamut from purely listers (only concerned about seeing the next new species) to someone who patiently observes birds and how they interact in the environment. The sole thing that makes this term trickier to compare to “Field Herping” is that all wild birds are hands-off, unless you have a hunting license and the bird is dead when in your possession, although before Peterson this wasn’t always the case. But, ask a grouse or duck hunter what they are doing and they will say “hunting”, not “birding”.

This is where I think the fishing part comes into play. There are plenty of people who go out to fish just to enjoy catching some fish, whether or not they keep any to bring home. Both activities though are still fishing. So I do not see collecting herps for various purposes as a disqualifier to “Field Herping”.

On a related side, I also believe there has to be some sort of underlining appreciation and dedication to herps for someone to be “Field Herping” So those people who search for herps for food, to commercial collect, to eradticate, etc… are not “Field Herping” because the only appreciation for the creature lies in it’s ability to keep the harvester alive, profit gains or the herp’s death. There is no appreciation of the herp for just being a herp.


In summary, I would define Field Herping as the hobby of observing and searching for wild reptiles motivated by a desire to enjoy and appreciate them.

Andy

Edit: Thanks to Chris' catch I would redefine my definition of Field Herping to be worded as "the hobby of observing and searching for wild amphibians and reptiles motivated by a desire to enjoy and appreciate them."

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by monklet » October 8th, 2011, 7:11 am

As for the first four ...you'd have to consult a proctologist.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Ted » October 8th, 2011, 7:43 am

peterknuteberg wrote:
I think that a field herper is anyone who goes out to look for herps. However, I don't think that people who kill said herps are field herpers.
The last photo shows Joe Colllins and a group of people I believe are "field herpers" from the KHS. Several herpetologists were also involved, including Travis Taggert and Dan Foggel. I am in the photo as well as a number of people from this forum. The purpose of the survey was to field herp variouos counties in Kansas and find out what was there. The survey included collecting (with permits) specimens for professional herpetologists. Probably most of the animals were not collected but simply counted, photographed and observed. However, some of the specimens were collected and would later be killed for scientific purposes including vouchers, DNA sampling and other reasons. I believed that there was a higher purpose here which justified the killing of a few specimens. We in fact extended the range for several species, including Crotalus horridus. As believe that we were "field herping" for the purpose of some animals later being killed for the purpose of science and herpetology. These KHS trips go on every Fall and Spring and is some great field herping.
Let me answer this with another quote, because I thought it was so well written:
Andy Avram wrote:Good topic, unfortunately, there are too many parallel threads right now, and I can’t remember who said/what in which thread. I am double posting this here and in Gerry's thread.

Regardless, I think we are on the right track to define what “Field Herping” (also in my mind, and the following post, synonymous with “Herping”) is, and I do agree it is important that this activity, as in any activity, has a proper term.

To begin with, I see this term defining a hobby and state of mind, nothing more nothing less. I also see this equivalent to a mixture of birding, with a dash of fishing. A deeper look why:

A hobby is an activity someone does for fun on their own time. This means that professional herpetologists are not necessarily “Field Herping” when they are out collecting data. They are working. To illustrate this point, run into a herpetologist in the field and ask them what they are doing. They are not going to say “herping” “field herping” or any other synonym. They are going to tell you “working”, “collecting data for their research”, etc… Just like an ornithologist isn’t really birding or bird watching when they are doing their work, or an ichthyologist is not going to say fishing if they are collecting fish for research. But, the fact that they are collecting research and working doesn’t mean they aren’t also “field herping”, “birding”, etc… at the same time. For example, if you are collecting data on Lake Erie Water Snakes, you are also getting some field herping time in when you observe other non-research herp species. So, if you are not a professional herpetologists and you are still “Field Herping” even if you are collecting data for some reason, because you are doing it for fun on your own time (this is where part of the “state of mind” part I mentioned earlier comes into play).

Birding is a pastime activity where people go out to appreciate birds in the wild. It ranges the gamut from purely listers (only concerned about seeing the next new species) to someone who patiently observes birds and how they interact in the environment. The sole thing that makes this term trickier to compare to “Field Herping” is that all wild birds are hands-off, unless you have a hunting license and the bird is dead when in your possession, although before Peterson this wasn’t always the case. But, ask a grouse or duck hunter what they are doing and they will say “hunting”, not “birding”.

This is where I think the fishing part comes into play. There are plenty of people who go out to fish just to enjoy catching some fish, whether or not they keep any to bring home. Both activities though are still fishing. So I do not see collecting herps for various purposes as a disqualifier to “Field Herping”.

On a related side, I also believe there has to be some sort of underlining appreciation and dedication to herps for someone to be “Field Herping” So those people who search for herps for food, to commercial collect, to eradticate, etc… are not “Field Herping” because the only appreciation for the creature lies in it’s ability to keep the harvester alive, profit gains or the herp’s death. There is no appreciation of the herp for just being a herp.


In summary, I would define Field Herping as the hobby of observing and searching for wild reptiles motivated by a desire to enjoy and appreciate them.

Andy
In my mind killing for the reasons you specified turns a person into a herpetologist rather than a field herper. In my mind, field herping has always been more of a hobby rather than a professional job. That's not to say that scientists can't also be field herping, but there is still some stuff they do (such as killing a specimen) that I don't consider field herping

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Serpentes » October 10th, 2011, 11:23 pm

monklet wrote:As for the first four ...you'd have to consult a proctologist.
Even a "proctor" could place the first four into their appropriate category :lol:

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by peterknuteberg » October 11th, 2011, 2:50 am

Andy stated:


Birding is a pastime activity where people go out to appreciate birds in the wild. It ranges the gamut from purely listers (only concerned about seeing the next new species) to someone who patiently observes birds and how they interact in the environment. The sole thing that makes this term trickier to compare to “Field Herping” is that all wild birds are hands-off, unless you have a hunting license and the bird is dead when in your possession, although before Peterson this wasn’t always the case. But, ask a grouse or duck hunter what they are doing and they will say “hunting”, not “birding”.

This is where I think the fishing part comes into play. There are plenty of people who go out to fish just to enjoy catching some fish, whether or not they keep any to bring home. Both activities though are still fishing. So I do not see collecting herps for various purposes as a disqualifier to “Field Herping”.

On a related side, I also believe there has to be some sort of underlining appreciation and dedication to herps for someone to be “Field Herping” So those people who search for herps for food, to commercial collect, to eradticate, etc… are not “Field Herping” because the only appreciation for the creature lies in it’s ability to keep the harvester alive, profit gains or the herp’s death. There is no appreciation of the herp for just being a herp.

In summary, I would define Field Herping as the hobby of observing and searching for wild reptiles motivated by a desire to enjoy and appreciate them.

Andy
Andy, I agree with you. While technically the terms "field" + "herping" may have a broader meaning when taken together (as discussed here--any pursuing herps), the term as I understand it personally would be exactly what Andy states.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Jeremiah_Easter » October 11th, 2011, 7:52 am

I would define Field Herping as the hobby of observing and searching for wild reptiles motivated by a desire to enjoy and appreciate them.
Do we have a winning definition? This one works for me. Time to call Websters...

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by chrish » October 11th, 2011, 8:50 am

Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
I would define Field Herping as the hobby of observing and searching for wild reptiles motivated by a desire to enjoy and appreciate them.
Do we have a winning definition? This one works for me. Time to call Websters...
I agree. This is a great definition....except that I might include amphibians in my winning definition. :lol:

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by gbin » October 11th, 2011, 8:56 am

Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
I would define Field Herping as the hobby of observing and searching for wild reptiles motivated by a desire to enjoy and appreciate them.
Do we have a winning definition? This one works for me. Time to call Websters...
Sorry, Jeremiah, but - and I know this will come as a surprise - it takes more than just your support for a definition to be declared the "winner." :roll:

About all I (and it seems pretty clear, many other people here at FHF) agree with in the above definition is "searching for wild." Field herping might be a hobby or it might be a more serious pursuit. It might involve observing or it might instead involve a number of other ends to a hunt, including collecting. :shock: It can be for amphibians as well as for reptiles. And it can have myriad motivations behind it, not just enjoyment and appreciation.

And I'm not picking on Andy a bit; in fact I like a lot of the things he said. My question (and not necessarily based on what Andy wrote) is, just how many folks here think that because they personally like one definition or another, that somehow gives them the right to decide it should be everyone's definition?

Gerry

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Andy Avram » October 11th, 2011, 1:35 pm

I agree. This is a great definition....except that I might include amphibians in my winning definition. :lol:
Too funny. I made a point to put reptiles and amphibians in that definition instead of the word herps. Can't believe I left out the amphibians! Especially, since it is between salamanders and snakes as my favorite herp group.
About all I (and it seems pretty clear, many other people here at FHF) agree with in the above definition is "searching for wild." Field herping might be a hobby or it might be a more serious pursuit. It might involve observing or it might instead involve a number of other ends to a hunt, including collecting. :shock: It can be for amphibians as well as for reptiles. And it can have myriad motivations behind it, not just enjoyment and appreciation.
Gerry, I agree that pretty much everyone agrees on the "searching for wild" part, but I would argue for a hobby over serious pursuit. A hobby can be as serious as you make it, and if you are doing this for a job, then it is work and I think the "work" definition would supersede the "field herping" definition. As for the motivation, what is more root than enjoyment and appreciation?

Andy

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Mike Pingleton » October 11th, 2011, 1:44 pm

I like it! Great job, Andy! We know you meant to put the squiggly wet things in there too.

-Mike
chrish wrote:
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
I would define Field Herping as the hobby of observing and searching for wild reptiles motivated by a desire to enjoy and appreciate them.
Do we have a winning definition? This one works for me. Time to call Websters...
I agree. This is a great definition....except that I might include amphibians in my winning definition. :lol:

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Mike Pingleton » October 11th, 2011, 1:46 pm

How long do you plan to sit in the corner and polish -this- turd, Gerry?

Sheesh.
gbin wrote:
And I'm not picking on Andy a bit; in fact I like a lot of the things he said. My question (and not necessarily based on what Andy wrote) is, just how many folks here think that because they personally like one definition or another, that somehow gives them the right to decide it should be everyone's definition?

Gerry

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by gbin » October 11th, 2011, 2:12 pm

Mike Pingleton wrote:How long do you plan to sit in the corner and polish -this- turd, Gerry?

Sheesh.
gbin wrote: And I'm not picking on Andy a bit; in fact I like a lot of the things he said. My question (and not necessarily based on what Andy wrote) is, just how many folks here think that because they personally like one definition or another, that somehow gives them the right to decide it should be everyone's definition?

Gerry
I don't know, Mike. How long do you suppose some people here plan to proclaim/suggest/hint that their view is the consensus view, just because they want it to be? Like you said, sheesh.

I think you might have made a valid distinction between a herp hobby and a more serious herp pursuit, Andy, but not quite for the reason you offered. The only way it really makes sense to me to consider, say, a subsistence hunter who goes out after herps for the pot not to be a field herper is if s/he doesn't see him/herself as being one; I wouldn't see any good reason to exclude him/her, otherwise. (To give credit where credit is due, I think it was Daryl who suggested this same approach earlier in this or a related thread.) And who knows? Maybe even 100% of such people would say that they're not field herpers if they were asked about this stuff. But they haven't been asked, and aren't likely to be. ;)

Gerry

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by crocdoc » October 11th, 2011, 2:15 pm

Serpentes wrote:
crocdoc wrote:I have a name for the first four, but I doubt the forum moderators would allow me to post it here. :)
If it starts with F and ends with T, I completely agree (although there are innumerable other adequate words).
I'm impressed, you got it in one (especially if the name you had in mind has a 'w' slightly to the right of middle).

RobK

Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by RobK » October 11th, 2011, 2:52 pm

gbin wrote:The only way it really makes sense to me to consider, say, a subsistence hunter who goes out after herps for the pot not to be a field herper is if s/he doesn't see him/herself as being one; I wouldn't see any good reason to exclude him/her, otherwise.
Why keep dragging this out? If someone is actually hunting herps so they can bring home dinner that night, do you really think they care what it's called?

Jr: "Paw? Good luck field herping tonight! Can't wait to see what's for dinner!"
Paw: "Son, it's not called field herping no more."
Jr: "Why paw?"
Paw: "Them elite college ejucated folks on the FHF done went ahead and changed the definition."
Jr: "They didn't even call us to see if we cared?"
Paw: "We ain't got no phone, son."

Besides, Andy's suggested definition includes, enjoy and appreciate. I enjoy and appreciate most of my meals.

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Jeremiah_Easter » October 11th, 2011, 4:10 pm

I think the consensus on this forum is that Rob is hilarious. :lol: :lol: :lol: "no phone" :lol: :lol: (and that Gerry will never settle on a definition)

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Dell Despain » October 11th, 2011, 4:31 pm

While RobK is a funny guy... this killed me.
Mike Pingleton wrote:How long do you plan to sit in the corner and polish -this- turd, Gerry?
:shock: :lol: :lol: :beer:

-Dell

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by gbin » October 11th, 2011, 4:46 pm

RobK wrote:
gbin wrote:The only way it really makes sense to me to consider, say, a subsistence hunter who goes out after herps for the pot not to be a field herper is if s/he doesn't see him/herself as being one; I wouldn't see any good reason to exclude him/her, otherwise.
... If someone is actually hunting herps so they can bring home dinner that night, do you really think they care what it's called?
Uhmmm, no, Rob, I don't. That's why I more or less said as much. Remember, that part where I said "Maybe even 100% of such people would say that they're not field herpers if they were asked about this stuff"?
RobK wrote:Besides, Andy's suggested definition includes, enjoy and appreciate. I enjoy and appreciate most of my meals.
Andy spoke about those as motivations. People might generally enjoy and appreciate eating, but those aren't really its principle motivation; sometimes they don't play a part at all. And I see no reason to encumber the definition with motivation, anyway.
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:... Gerry will never settle on a definition)
Eh? I settled on my choice of a definition a long time ago, Jeremiah, just as I imagine you did.

Gee, guys, I'm sorry that differing viewpoints upset some of you so much... :roll:

Gerry

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Re: Are these FIELD HERPERS?

Post by Ridge Walker » October 11th, 2011, 4:56 pm

gbin wrote: Gee, guys, I'm sorry that differing viewpoints upset some of you so much... :roll:

Gerry
:lol:

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