Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

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brick911
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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by brick911 » November 6th, 2011, 4:02 am

I think that Slash case was chalked up to ignorance. Either way, I don't think he even keeps anymore.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by ugh » November 6th, 2011, 4:33 am

I always imagined her as a very giving person 8-)

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by dragoncjo » November 6th, 2011, 4:56 am

Tyler out of curiousity how old are you? I think it would be ashame if we are really putting the heat on a kid. There is better ways to educate someone on proper etiquette in the field then the way we go about it on here, Tyler has clearly displayed ignorance to the rules that most guys in the field use (or appear to), but let's try to intelligently and professionally get our points across. This forum is no longer some back alley of the internet it has become a bit more professional and since this is NAHFA sub forum it reflects poorly on the organization when it gets personal or condescending.

Tyler some rules we generally go by on here,

- localities are maybe only revealed at the county level, sometimes that is too revealing.
- Never ask for localities it is the equivalent of asking a women her age, or asking someone their political affiliation, just big no-no.
- Free handling of 'hots' is generally frowned upon, it endangers the snake and the person. Also it places a societal burden on everyone because we have to end up covering your medical bills when you get bit whether you have insurance or not.
- NO FORUM will give away locality, for one many state F&G's have sent emails, verbal request for forums of this nature to keep sensitive information regarding critical habitat off these forums. In fact one forum I frequent has a big sticky at the top saying this.
- Coming on a forum claiming that I'm too lazy to put in effort to find a snake 5 hours away won't gain any info. Your reap what you sow, put the work in and it will yield returns.

Also Jeff, its interesting to see your tone change when the subject is your backyard. You sound like me when people mention something where I live.....hah.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by dragoncjo » November 6th, 2011, 5:07 am

How was there a timber at the somerset 4H show?

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Bobbleton » November 6th, 2011, 6:00 am

dragoncjo wrote: Also Jeff, its interesting to see your tone change when the subject is your backyard. You sound like me when people mention something where I live.....hah.
Jeff may play the devil's advocate, but in reality generally walks the walk you talk, Chris. But you don't have to be a herp-nazi to want to keep stupid f-ing roundup people away from your local spots.

I'm shocked it took this long for us to be contacted by someone from that community . . .

Btw maybe something to look at:

Reinert, H.K. & Rupert JR, R.R. Impacts of translocation on behavior and survival of timber rattlesnakes, Crotalus horridus. Journal of Herpetology 33, 45-61 (1999).

If i recall correctly this study was done in PA . . . oh bear in mind these snakes also didn't endure same rookie capture, stretching injuries, and prolonged stress of being tossed in a hideless pit and being screwed with for a few days. Good thing they're out there "saving" them on behalf of conservation.

Enjoy!!

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by ugh » November 6th, 2011, 6:08 am

dragoncjo wrote:Also Jeff, its interesting to see your tone change when the subject is your backyard. You sound like me when people mention something where I live.....hah.
That's funny you mention this, I noticed that immediately and thought that was pretty stunning too,lol.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by brick911 » November 6th, 2011, 6:23 am

Chris, I couldn't have said it better and probably wouldn't have. I am cringing reading some of this from my phone. Thanks for getting involved here.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by vincemartino » November 6th, 2011, 6:29 am

Python Guy wrote:
so your putting the blame on a fundraiser for a firehouse?[/quote]

It doesn't matter either way who is running the round-up. Sorry.

I also understand what Chris is saying with the evolution of PA. I've spent much time in various areas of PA and yea, a lot of it is old fashioned country. Lot's of good ol' boy gas and oil workers, farmers, loggers, hunters. Lots of small towns. I appreciate this sort of culture, but the people still have just as much responsibility for their natural resources, regardless of the culture. I hold mostly all people up to the same sort of moral and ethical standards as I hold myself.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 6:38 am

dragoncjo wrote:Tyler out of curiousity how old are you? I think it would be ashame if we are really putting the heat on a kid. There is better ways to educate someone on proper etiquette in the field then the way we go about it on here, Tyler has clearly displayed ignorance to the rules that most guys in the field use (or appear to), but let's try to intelligently and professionally get our points across. This forum is no longer some back alley of the internet it has become a bit more professional and since this is NAHFA sub forum it reflects poorly on the organization when it gets personal or condescending.

Tyler some rules we generally go by on here,

- localities are maybe only revealed at the county level, sometimes that is too revealing.
- Never ask for localities it is the equivalent of asking a women her age, or asking someone their political affiliation, just big no-no.
- Free handling of 'hots' is generally frowned upon, it endangers the snake and the person. Also it places a societal burden on everyone because we have to end up covering your medical bills when you get bit whether you have insurance or not.
- NO FORUM will give away locality, for one many state F&G's have sent emails, verbal request for forums of this nature to keep sensitive information regarding critical habitat off these forums. In fact one forum I frequent has a big sticky at the top saying this.
- Coming on a forum claiming that I'm too lazy to put in effort to find a snake 5 hours away won't gain any info. Your reap what you sow, put the work in and it will yield returns.

Also Jeff, its interesting to see your tone change when the subject is your backyard. You sound like me when people mention something where I live.....hah.
16

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by vincemartino » November 6th, 2011, 6:39 am

Python Guy wrote:when did I say anything bad about timbers, all I said was that I have a extremely high respect for them just as I do for any other animal.
If you have respect for these animals then redefine how you treat the things you respect. That is what is needed. Visual Observation = productive. Round-up = counter-productive.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 6:41 am

dragoncjo wrote:How was there a timber at the somerset 4H show?
there wasnt, it was an intimidation tactic I guess the was poorly planned out because alot of people know that info. Venomus animals arent able to be shown or brought to the fair.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 6:44 am

vincemartino wrote:
Python Guy wrote:
so your putting the blame on a fundraiser for a firehouse?
It doesn't matter either way who is running the round-up. Sorry.

I also understand what Chris is saying with the evolution of PA. I've spent much time in various areas of PA and yea, a lot of it is old fashioned country. Lot's of good ol' boy gas and oil workers, farmers, loggers, hunters. Lots of small towns. I appreciate this sort of culture, but the people still have just as much responsibility for their natural resources, regardless of the culture. I hold mostly all people up to the same sort of moral and ethical standards as I hold myself.[/quote]

the "roundup" as you like to call it is run by the Keystone Reptile Club, who if you research enough you will find is a fundraiser and educational program.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by vincemartino » November 6th, 2011, 6:52 am

Python Guy wrote:
bwaterherper wrote:You want to know how small this world is tyler? You just became president of the somerset sidewinder 4h club right? I was president 2 years ago or something ask the leaders or katherine or any of the older members, they remember me.

Anyway I digress,

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt but looking at a picture of you hooking a timber i noticed a comment under it stating you free handled it. That just seems really unnecessary

hmm very interesting, and yes every once and a while I do...just the same as you free handling those salamanders.
SERIOUSLY?! Think about the burden you may be placing on your parents if you are tagged by a rattlesnake! Depending on various factors involving the degree of venom and the decisions of doctors your parents could spend as much on treatment as many may spend on college. Imagine having to deal with this when you are on your own. I advise you to change your ways... To think that handling a spotted salamander is in any way equivalent to handling a rattlesnake is ignorant, stupid, a blatant example of unabashed hubris. People like you make my blood boil.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by vincemartino » November 6th, 2011, 6:57 am

Python Guy wrote:
the "roundup" as you like to call it is run by the Keystone Reptile Club, who if you research enough you will find is a fundraiser and educational program.
1) You are the one who openly acknowledged you participate in a round-up.

2) Just because some organization claims that they exist for the purpose of education does not mean that the means by which it educates are ethical or "good." You must not be reading what I said. Oh well.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by brick911 » November 6th, 2011, 7:20 am

Tyler,

A while back in this thread Kyle suggested you check out our bylaws at nafha.org. Just in case it got lost in the "hype" on this thread, I have copied and pasted the purpose of our organization. You are on fieldherpforum, but we are a NAFHA (North American Field Herping Association) subforum. Therefore, please read the purpose of NAFHA below. I know this will be a lot to digest, but please take the time to read it thoroughly and try to understand what we are about. You've spent a lot of time here defending yourself. People get emotional and start attacking, and as you said, irrelevant things are said. You've done the same, so before we move forward, try to understand the bylaws below. Admittedly, there are people here in this thread that are giving you a hard time that aren't members either, but really - we all share the same basic philosophy as what is stated below. If you have any questions, please bring them up to the community.

Bob

The purpose of the association will be:

A. To collect scientific data on wild reptiles and amphibians in the United States, Canada, and Mexico and maintain a database for the collection and sharing of such scientific data.

B. To unite amateur/private herpetologists and professional herpetologists in the collection of data with the goal of conserving North American herpetofauna, with a greater goal of species management. A highlight of this group is to provide state or provincial and national game agencies with sufficient data to assist in the development of more educated decisions on how to better manage reptile and amphibian populations. The NAFHA and its members recognize that habitat destruction and alteration, poor land management, and non-native species are the greatest threats to North American herpetofauna. The NAFHA and its members will focus on methods of conservation related to the above issues and will assist in the collection of data in an effort to develop a management plan for such issues.

C. To disseminate the data collected, and otherwise make such data available, to recognized researchers, agencies, institutions, lawmakers, and others interested in herpetology and conservation for the purposes of education, conservation, research, and sustainable use of North American herpetofauna.

D. To promote knowledge in the general field of herpetology for the benefit of the public and the general NAFHA membership.

E. To inspire all people to enjoy and protect wild herpetofauna and promote the responsible enjoyment of the activity of observing herpetofauna in the wild.

* NOTE: We recognize the right of members and non-members of NAFHA to collect species of amphibians and reptiles in accordance with applicable local, state/provincial, and federal regulations. NAFHA, however, does not promote the collection of amphibians and reptiles and this practice will not be permitted at NAFHA-sponsored events. Exceptions may be considered in certain cases, e.g., discoveries of new taxa or range extensions.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 7:41 am

brick911 wrote:Tyler,

A while back in this thread Kyle suggested you check out our bylaws at nafha.org. Just in case it got lost in the "hype" on this thread, I have copied and pasted the purpose of our organization. You are on fieldherpforum, but we are a NAFHA (North American Field Herping Association) subforum. Therefore, please read the purpose of NAFHA below. I know this will be a lot to digest, but please take the time to read it thoroughly and try to understand what we are about. You've spent a lot of time here defending yourself. People get emotional and start attacking, and as you said, irrelevant things are said. You've done the same, so before we move forward, try to understand the bylaws below. Admittedly, there are people here in this thread that are giving you a hard time that aren't members either, but really - we all share the same basic philosophy as what is stated below. If you have any questions, please bring them up to the community.

Bob

The purpose of the association will be:

A. To collect scientific data on wild reptiles and amphibians in the United States, Canada, and Mexico and maintain a database for the collection and sharing of such scientific data.

B. To unite amateur/private herpetologists and professional herpetologists in the collection of data with the goal of conserving North American herpetofauna, with a greater goal of species management. A highlight of this group is to provide state or provincial and national game agencies with sufficient data to assist in the development of more educated decisions on how to better manage reptile and amphibian populations. The NAFHA and its members recognize that habitat destruction and alteration, poor land management, and non-native species are the greatest threats to North American herpetofauna. The NAFHA and its members will focus on methods of conservation related to the above issues and will assist in the collection of data in an effort to develop a management plan for such issues.

C. To disseminate the data collected, and otherwise make such data available, to recognized researchers, agencies, institutions, lawmakers, and others interested in herpetology and conservation for the purposes of education, conservation, research, and sustainable use of North American herpetofauna.

D. To promote knowledge in the general field of herpetology for the benefit of the public and the general NAFHA membership.

E. To inspire all people to enjoy and protect wild herpetofauna and promote the responsible enjoyment of the activity of observing herpetofauna in the wild.

* NOTE: We recognize the right of members and non-members of NAFHA to collect species of amphibians and reptiles in accordance with applicable local, state/provincial, and federal regulations. NAFHA, however, does not promote the collection of amphibians and reptiles and this practice will not be permitted at NAFHA-sponsored events. Exceptions may be considered in certain cases, e.g., discoveries of new taxa or range extensions.
Thanks but just answer this question as honestly as you can. Everyone is going to have different opinions, correct? so why have I been verbaly assaulted on this post instead of people stating there point like an adult. Like I said before, people make mistakes and all someone had to do was say locations are not talked about on this site and that would have been that. Instead a extreme amount of disrespect was displayed on mocking me, the club, and the potter county fire dept. I thought that this fourum would be a good place, like it says in the bylaws to learn more from experts and people who have been doing this longer than me, but all I seem to have taken from this was the fact that once a different viewpoint is placed infront of people they turn into a group of second graders mocking and abusing me. For gods sake, I'm only 16 and this is my first impression of this site...EXTREMLEY DISSAPOINTING. :(

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by brick911 » November 6th, 2011, 8:03 am

An honest answer is that passionate people speak from emotion too often, and not their heads. We are all guilty of it.

You are right - We (NAFHA) as an organization, need to become better when your sort of situation arises. However, you need to keep in mind that not everybody here (even if they followed a professional protocol) are NAFHA members. This is a public forum, and people say what they want for the most part. It's up to the individual to rise above the negativity.

I hope you can stick around because there is a lot for you to learn here, but also a lot for us to learn from someone involved in rattlesnake round-ups like yourself. I'm not saying I agree with them, in fact, I totally disagree with them. But we could all use the exercise in conversing with people such as yourself, on the other side of the argument.

And there's hope that you could have an open mind to see what we have to offer in theory and practice for conservation of the animals, hopefully without the disrespect.

That said Tyler, grow some thick skin because what I said above is an ideal world.

Welcome to the site. The mockery and disrespect is not the norm here and is frowned upon. Hopefully, we can move aways from this.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by vincemartino » November 6th, 2011, 8:09 am

To explain: Your introduction and explanation of your involvement with the snakes created the exact feeling you have. Extremely disappointing. People here are, for the most part, passionate about the conservation of herps.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 8:14 am

brick911 wrote:An honest answer is that passionate people speak from emotion too often, and not their heads. We are all guilty of it.

You are right - We (NAFHA) as an organization, need to become better when your sort of situation arises. However, you need to keep in mind that not everybody here (even if they followed a professional protocol) are NAFHA members. This is a public forum, and people say what they want for the most part. It's up to the individual to rise above the negativity.

I hope you can stick around because there is a lot for you to learn here, but also a lot for us to learn from someone involved in rattlesnake round-ups like yourself. I'm not saying I agree with them, in fact, I totally disagree with them. But we could all use the exercise in conversing with people such as yourself, on the other side of the argument.

And there's hope that you could have an open mind to see what we have to offer in theory and practice for conservation of the animals, hopefully without the disrespect.

That said Tyler, grow some thick skin because what I said above is an ideal world.

Welcome to the site. The mockery and disrespect is not the norm here and is frowned upon. Hopefully, we can move aways from this.
I am sticking around, now I know what people expect on this site

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by dragoncjo » November 6th, 2011, 8:21 am

Okay guys the kid is 16, everyone pump the brakes. I for one was a jackass when I was 16. If this kid was in front of you in person and we did this it would be pretty embarrassing.

Tyler, hang in there, the ripping is par for the course here, ask the Kirby's. There is lots of people to learn from here.

Also free handling at 16 is a big risk. Your on your parents insurance (I'm assuming), I'd rather have money for college to become a herpetologist or whatever then have my money go towards amputating a finger or arm.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by bwaterherper » November 6th, 2011, 8:21 am

dragoncjo wrote:How was there a timber at the somerset 4H show?
who said this?

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by dragoncjo » November 6th, 2011, 8:22 am

Hamilton, I'm joking with Jeff, but I found it interesting.....I had to read twice to see if he was serious or not.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by bwaterherper » November 6th, 2011, 8:26 am

dragoncjo wrote:Hamilton, I'm joking with Jeff, but I found it interesting.....I had to read twice to see if he was serious or not.
hamilton? :roll: :lol:

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by dragoncjo » November 6th, 2011, 8:29 am

No, hamilton is bobbleton's last name.

Scott I thought you said it in one of your posts. I guess I misinterpreted one of your responses.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by bwaterherper » November 6th, 2011, 8:31 am

dragoncjo wrote:No, hamilton is bobbleton's last name.

Scott I thought you said it in one of your posts. I guess I misinterpreted one of your responses.
unfortunately there are no real interesting snakes at the fair let alone anything venomous

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Notread » November 6th, 2011, 8:32 am

bwaterherper wrote: spotted sally spots? count me in(seriously you live close pony up) :lol: :lol:
Sure man! Just let me know when. I found my first spotted in North Branch when I was about 10. Didn't see another one until I was in my mid 20's.
Python Guy wrote:all i want to know is it worth it to go down to the delaware water gap or in that local area, ive heard good and bad so
Unless you want to spend time in court, I'd avoid herping that area like the plague.
Python Guy wrote:when did I say anything bad about timbers, all I said was that I have a extremely high respect for them just as I do for any other animal.
Sadly, your unwaivering support of round-ups is enough said.
bwaterherper wrote:Not really sure who told you about the truck thing but it was an accident so not sure how bringing up that is necessary
Haha, that is awesome! You get points in my book for blowing things up. +1 :D
dragoncjo wrote:Also Jeff, its interesting to see your tone change when the subject is your backyard. You sound like me when people mention something where I live.....hah.
Haha, I was wondering when this was going to come up. Bobble hit the nail on the head here:
Bobbleton wrote:Jeff may play the devil's advocate, but in reality generally walks the walk you talk, Chris. But you don't have to be a herp-nazi to want to keep stupid f-ing roundup people away from your local spots.
ugh wrote:That's funny you mention this, I noticed that immediately and thought that was pretty stunning too,lol.
:D

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 8:35 am

bwaterherper wrote:
dragoncjo wrote:No, hamilton is bobbleton's last name.

Scott I thought you said it in one of your posts. I guess I misinterpreted one of your responses.
unfortunately there are no real interesting snakes at the fair let alone anything venomous
not now, we have burms retics a water monitor and hopfully some bloods aswell

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Notread » November 6th, 2011, 8:36 am

dragoncjo wrote:Hamilton, I'm joking with Jeff, but I found it interesting.....I had to read twice to see if he was serious or not.
Serious as a heart attack. ;)

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by ugh » November 6th, 2011, 8:45 am

I agree with Chris,the kid's here so deal with it.

I wanted to take this approach but got pissed off,lol.

And yes for damn sure,beware of all the honorable-sounding alterior motives people will hide behind to justify their exploitation of these snakes-e.g.,'education'.....'research'....etc.
Heck I'm somewhat guilty too-I definitely get pleasure out of seeing them so I'm not claiming total innocence.PA's roundups are posibly the most educational and least harmful of them all but the system is still seriously flawed at least in the sense that determining a snake's sex in the field can be very challenging especially to someone that does such a thing only once a year or so.And I know many if not most of the female snakes mistakenly turned in as males turned in do not make it back to the actual point of capture,essentially making them dead to their population.Botom line most folks touting the educational value of even PA's roundups are ignorant to the fact that it's essentially a vaudeville act,a folksy sideshow to bring in people and their money to the local town and the coordinators of the event.The snakes do not benefit from it.If anything it just encourages more stress to the local snakes in the form of human attention and snakehunters disturbing their site.


Get a camera,read up on it,play around with it,learn how to use it.The more features it has,the better.I'd suggest a full-featured digital,it's a whole new world to enjoy and of course many of us mix photography with herping.

Tyler I have seen hundreds,no thousands of timber rattlers in the field in at least 9 states-including your home state-and have never freehandled one even as a total greenhorn-never felt the need to though I know the temptation can be strong..I also have never been bitten by one-at this point I can say it's because I see no reason to put myself in the position that will make that likely......Been struck at?Sure, maybe by about 5 or 6,total.And I would say arguably that those cases were all my fault-e.g. not seeing where I was stepping,etc. As usual they were just reacting to my actions.I learn something new about the species every time out.

I'd add that easily 95% of folks I have met that have been tagged got bit as a result of doing something they had no business doing(handling,touching,bagging,collecting,getting too close even if for a cool/stupid photo,trying to kill or move the snake,etc.)-and more often than not it involved handling the snake when not really necessary(e.g. not moving it off a road,etc.)

If you're still reading this,my point above is, freehandling a venomous snake is stupid let alone unnecessary and pointless no matter who or how old you are.Period.
The results are potentially bad for all involved-the person,the snake,the community,everyone.And for potentially what gain?Nothing.

Like was said be open minded enough to reconsider your relationship with these animals and even who you associate with around them.Many of us end up herping alone for good reason, at least when it comes to this species.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Andrew G » November 6th, 2011, 8:59 am

Roadkill wrote:wow, really, I know I am new here, but come on.
I apply for my permit, head up to the mountain and kill my rattlesnake nice and legal.
and you guys are in an uproar about him asking for a spot.
why don't you get off your arses and get that outdated hunting law off the books if the rattelsnakes are so important to you all.
Is there anyone in Pennsylvania who is working on getting this law overturned? It may be a hard thing to do given general perceptions of rattlesnakes, but would be a good thing to work on.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by tabernaclegary » November 6th, 2011, 9:09 am

In reply to justin's suggestion.
Get a camera,read up on it,play around with it,learn how to use it.The more features it has,the better.I'd suggest a full-featured digital,it's a whole new world to enjoy and of course many of us mix photography with herping.

This was from about 6-8 feet away and laying on the ground of course but no contact and actually a hell of a lot cooler than handling it!
Image

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Notread » November 6th, 2011, 9:13 am

Roadkill wrote:wow, really, I know I am new here, but come on.
I apply for my permit, head up to the mountain and kill my rattlesnake nice and legal.
and you guys are in an uproar about him asking for a spot.
why don't you get off your arses and get that outdated hunting law off the books if the rattelsnakes are so important to you all.

Wow, I almost overlooked this. This right here is a perfect example of why we do not share locality information. What other purpose would a rattlesnake hunter have on our forums if not to try and grab new localities to hunt. Man we gave Tyler a hard time, but this guy is a much bigger problem.

Python Guy
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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 9:14 am

tabernaclegary wrote:In reply to justin's suggestion.
Get a camera,read up on it,play around with it,learn how to use it.The more features it has,the better.I'd suggest a full-featured digital,it's a whole new world to enjoy and of course many of us mix photography with herping.

This was from about 6-8 feet away and laying on the ground of course but no contact and actually a hell of a lot cooler than handling it!
Image
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... =3&theater

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 9:16 am

Andrew G wrote:
Roadkill wrote:wow, really, I know I am new here, but come on.
I apply for my permit, head up to the mountain and kill my rattlesnake nice and legal.
and you guys are in an uproar about him asking for a spot.
why don't you get off your arses and get that outdated hunting law off the books if the rattelsnakes are so important to you all.
Is there anyone in Pennsylvania who is working on getting this law overturned? It may be a hard thing to do given general perceptions of rattlesnakes, but would be a good thing to work on.

Yes there are but even if they do, there are alot of places where it cant be enforced so it wouldnt really have a major effect

ugh
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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by ugh » November 6th, 2011, 9:45 am

Python Guy wrote:
Andrew G wrote:
Roadkill wrote:wow, really, I know I am new here, but come on.
I apply for my permit, head up to the mountain and kill my rattlesnake nice and legal.
and you guys are in an uproar about him asking for a spot.
why don't you get off your arses and get that outdated hunting law off the books if the rattelsnakes are so important to you all.
Is there anyone in Pennsylvania who is working on getting this law overturned? It may be a hard thing to do given general perceptions of rattlesnakes, but would be a good thing to work on.

Yes there are but even if they do, there are alot of places where it cant be enforced so it wouldnt really have a major effect
Lol dude way to throw your fellow roundup compadres under the bus,presuming they would just disregard a law if they can get away with it....I disagree and call this a copout mentality.

I'm no pollyanna in fact I'm a fairly hardened cynic if anything-but I have to admit I've always been impressed by the awareness of and apparent/implied respect for the law by the vast majority of outdoorsmen I've chatted with in PA.You may wanna remember to speak for yourself.I'm learning a lot about you here,keep it coming if you like.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 9:54 am

first off, i dont live in pa. second of all, have you been there in person. because where i go the nearest cop is minimum 1 hr away and there is no one following you five miles into the mountains to see if you have a gold slip or not so actually find your info because im not throwing anyone under a bus, im stating a fact. they will try but you tell me how they can enforce it.

ugh
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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by ugh » November 6th, 2011, 10:25 am

My bad-I don't know where you live but chances are I've been to that state and seen timbers....And yes by that you could probably deduce that I've been there-even in person!

And don't be so confident in being able to get away scot free.For one thing,people talk.and tak and talk and talk.There's eyes and ears everywhere.

Quick story for ya-a dude got bit by a TR in sw PA this year.I read about it-said he 'was tagged when he reached down to pick up the walking stick he dropped'.....Hmmmm,sounded kinda like bullshit to me for some reason.Sure enough,come to find out this was indeed the same guy that was busted with a sack full of gravid female TR's in an entirely different part of the state a couple years prior.He's a hack bagger,a poacher and now much moreso known as such all over the state and beyond.

'Small world' as you guys say,huh?
;)

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Python Guy » November 6th, 2011, 10:30 am

Yeah I did hear about that, I have the article somewhere in my room. What I'm trying to get across though is that if it is against the law, I will not do it, but there are alot of people that could care less and it makes it very easy when the nearest trooper is 1hr minimum away and if you are by your self five miles into a mountain in the middle of no where the chance of you getting caught is highly unlikley. Do you see what the point that I am trying to make is?

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Ridge Walker
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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Ridge Walker » November 6th, 2011, 10:40 am

If nothing else it will eliminate the roundups. Also, it is not troopers that are going to be looking for poachers, it will be game wardens hanging out by your car waiting for you to come out of the woods.

RW

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Roadkill » November 6th, 2011, 10:52 am

Why am I the bigger problem. I have the legal permit to hunt that rattlesnake. You people sound like those bear people over in New Jersey.
I don't see anyone trying to overturn the hunting laws for the snakes. Hey , but if you ever see me up on the mountain bring it on.
I have the right to do what I do, and can have you arrested for trying to stop me.
or go to the higher level if you prefer.

Like I said before kid, which was so obvious in the first place. yea, you guys make new comers feel real welcome.
oh yea, what was I saying, oh yea, hit me up in the spring kid, We will hit it up.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by ugh » November 6th, 2011, 10:58 am

No Ty you're actually pretty bad at making your point clear,you sort of hop around all over the place.

You're young,you're more than a little flippant/cocky but admitedly your ass did get jumped on from the word go here but you just ask for it and keep on digging,lol.


Btw 'roadkill' I'd take my chances with you..Get out of here.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Roadkill » November 6th, 2011, 11:04 am

you are pretty big when you are poking at a 16 year old ugh. haha
we shall see when you come up on this ex-marine.
see you in the hills.

I got your back Tyler.

ugh
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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by ugh » November 6th, 2011, 11:07 am

HA you're the first marine I've ever heard refer to himself as an ex-marine.They call themselves former marines and will adamantly correct anyone that uses the term 'ex-marine'....Might wanna remember that next time you play that card,lol. ;)

You can send me a pm anytime you want bro and we'll go from there if you actually want to line it up.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by vincemartino » November 6th, 2011, 11:18 am

Python Guy, there may be people that will never comply to the laws, but on the flipside there will be many more that respect it. Criminality is not the norm, but the exception. As was stated before, it will also eliminate the irresponsible practice of round-ups.
Ridge Walker wrote:If nothing else it will eliminate the roundups. Also, it is not troopers that are going to be looking for poachers, it will be game wardens hanging out by your car waiting for you to come out of the woods.

RW
Exactly. There have been plenty of times this has happened to me. Depending on where you are, even possessing a bag, hook, or tongs will have you dealing with the fuzz.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by vincemartino » November 6th, 2011, 11:27 am

Roadkill wrote:you are pretty big when you are poking at a 16 year old ugh. haha
we shall see when you come up on this ex-marine.
see you in the hills.

I got your back Tyler.
Get lost.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by dragoncjo » November 6th, 2011, 11:34 am

Justin your a friend, but come on he is 16 give it a rest and I think he has articulated his points well.

As for you roadkill why are you on this site if you kill snakes? And why would a 16 year old who likes timbers and doesn't want to hurt them want to rub elbows with someone who kills one a year. Wouldn't that big a big bold conflict of interest. Tyler, your young choose your buddies you go in the field with wisely.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by Roadkill » November 6th, 2011, 12:03 pm

so because I hunt makes it bad to be on this site.
So how many snakes get killed every year for repeat science. and get put in pickling jars by you so called conservationists. and how many snakes or salamanders get killed by accident as you guys are "roadcruising"
is this any different than me taking a legal animal. or is it just the hypocrisy of its okay as long as you were doing it.
all I ever see in past posts is ugh saying how many densites he goes to and how often he goes.
I look at all the pictures on here, you all say no touch policy is the best way to go, yet, every pic has you posing or holding every species. its even okay to tube a timber as long as you are justified with you are putting in data to a state.
so am I , in a way, why is that my way is wrong and yours is not.

and it is unbelievable how verbal threats are so common on here. I played devils advocate to see how long it would take to get these threats, I think it took only one or two posts to first get them.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by dragoncjo » November 6th, 2011, 12:09 pm

Shoot me in the head.

I don't disagree with alot of what you said roadkill. The fact that you kill snakes but also like them I guess just confuses the hell out of me.

Also nobody tubes TR's unless they are doing a permitted study with some long term benefits for the species.

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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by heavenscloud » November 6th, 2011, 12:12 pm

dragoncjo wrote:Tyler out of curiousity how old are you? I think it would be ashame if we are really putting the heat on a kid. There is better ways to educate someone on proper etiquette in the field then the way we go about it on here, Tyler has clearly displayed ignorance to the rules that most guys in the field use (or appear to), but let's try to intelligently and professionally get our points across. This forum is no longer some back alley of the internet it has become a bit more professional and since this is NAHFA sub forum it reflects poorly on the organization when it gets personal or condescending.

Tyler some rules we generally go by on here,

- localities are maybe only revealed at the county level, sometimes that is too revealing.
- Never ask for localities it is the equivalent of asking a women her age, or asking someone their political affiliation, just big no-no.
- Free handling of 'hots' is generally frowned upon, it endangers the snake and the person. Also it places a societal burden on everyone because we have to end up covering your medical bills when you get bit whether you have insurance or not.
- NO FORUM will give away locality, for one many state F&G's have sent emails, verbal request for forums of this nature to keep sensitive information regarding critical habitat off these forums. In fact one forum I frequent has a big sticky at the top saying this.
- Coming on a forum claiming that I'm too lazy to put in effort to find a snake 5 hours away won't gain any info. Your reap what you sow, put the work in and it will yield returns.
Well said.

dragoncjo wrote:Justin your a friend, but come on he is 16 give it a rest and I think he has articulated his points well.
Threads like this make NAFHA look like a joke. Apparently, this forum has three moderators. Shame on you for letting this continue.


Brandon

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kyle loucks
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Re: Rattlesnake areas along NJ/PA line?

Post by kyle loucks » November 6th, 2011, 12:14 pm

Andrew G wrote:
Roadkill wrote:wow, really, I know I am new here, but come on.
I apply for my permit, head up to the mountain and kill my rattlesnake nice and legal.
and you guys are in an uproar about him asking for a spot.
why don't you get off your arses and get that outdated hunting law off the books if the rattelsnakes are so important to you all.
Is there anyone in Pennsylvania who is working on getting this law overturned? It may be a hard thing to do given general perceptions of rattlesnakes, but would be a good thing to work on.

Hunting is big $$$ in this state... though the limited number of licenses issued wont get the governor a big screen tv, its still money.

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