FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

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DIAMONDBACK DAVE
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FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by DIAMONDBACK DAVE » July 8th, 2010, 4:56 pm

I just responded to a post on the Southeast Forum about a request for Timber rattlesnake spots or locations in N GA. My reply is posted below. I thought this very important topic should be brought to light and expounded on----- especially by the veteran herpers who have followed the culture and populations of animals for years, and secondly invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours in the field while newbies are apt to give out locations seemingly--- on a whim, to anybody, often on a public board no less?

Thread; "where to find rattlesnakes" and my reply-------
"This FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING is disgusting and makes me SICK to my stumach. Timber rattlesnakes are not very commen in N GA -mind all of you- and I dont like the sound of this post from the beggining. I just responded to a separate PM from someone regarding possible poaching this month at a long monitored TR gestating site in the Northeast. And Yes --all the snakes have magically dissapeared for two years now....
Your responsability as a wildlife enthusiast should be to play your part to protect wildlife and giving out SENSATIVE denning locations (Which Im assuming may happen) to persons without proper screening (as the trend of this thread suggests) is one of the main reasons (albiet the few) that this forum may have turned the corner to a force of NEGATIVE IMPACTS!!!!!!>???????

Im not going to address this any further. That is my two sense, respond to it as you will...."

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stlouisdude
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by stlouisdude » July 8th, 2010, 5:35 pm

From http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/ma ... snake.html

"Rattlesnake experts Dan Keyler and Barney Oldfield say poaching and den disturbances during the past decade have caused a 90 percent decline in timber rattlesnakes". Basically, the only way to stop the poachers and vandals was to put cameras all over the place and monitor like mad. In many areas, such a thing is just not feasible. Fortunately, the areas I visit have not had such incidents to date (though there have been less serious transgressions).

FHF, locals happening across them, University staff/students/publications, are all possible ways people might learn the exact localities quite easily. FHF is definitely the way some of the laziest would seek this information. Even if the people are not poachers and people who kill snakes because they are bored, there are quite a few who would go out of their way to harass the snakes beyond simple photographs, even in study areas. I always follow the rule that if someone else showed me a spot, I wont show it to anyone else without the original person's consent.

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Josh Holbrook
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Josh Holbrook » July 8th, 2010, 6:45 pm

I'd suggest not jumping to conclusions and citing that specific example as your case, Dave - he might be a bang-up guy who just doesn't know much of FHF etiquette. And besides, I would obviously discourage giving out spots to newcomers until they show their good intentions and develope a good reputation; but alot of us (your self included, if I'm correct) had our start by some people showing us "the good spots" and advancing our knowledge. Your "Fast food Herping" nomenclature seems a little rash and abrasive. "Fast Food Herping" might be to another herper "discipleship." From anecdotal evidence, very few of us here got our start without a little help from others.

That said though, I do agree that mature herping should involve alot of hard work, research, and ingenuity... But such virtues are developed with time.

Paul White
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Paul White » July 8th, 2010, 6:52 pm

Does Georgia not really protect it's protected land? In Texas (at least the Panhandle) the parks here are pretty well patrolled and you will very likely get caught and have stiff fines/go to jail if you try collecting in them. It's why I'm open about what state parks I find stuff in. If you want to try to pick up a hoggie off a trailhead, good luck with that; let me know how the county treats you during your extended stay in the wonderful Clements Unit.
I also have to ask how many people actually poach Timbers? They're not exactly scarce in the hobby as CBBs...and I do feel compelled to highlight this bit of that article:
No incidents of poaching or habitat destruction have been reported since the fall of 2001, when new signs and regular surveillance of timber rattlesnake habitat began. Timber rattlesnakes are predators that live in the forests and bluff prairies of southeastern Minnesota.
2001 was a while back...

I understand why people can be protective of their spots, even though I tend not to be...but jumping right off to the conclusion that people are poaching/possible poachers seems a bit harsh.

edited to add: I'm a lot more open to revealing general places (Yeah, try Palo Duro State Park or Wildcat Bluff Reserve, lots of snakes and stuff) if someone is looking for just general "herping spots." Who here hasn't had one or two days in a strange city and wanted to just go and observe random herps between business meetings or family crap?? (or am I just weird?) than I am "Oh yeah this is my go-to spot for this or that."

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Antonsrkn
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Antonsrkn » July 8th, 2010, 9:20 pm

2001 was a while back...
So was 1975, when the bounty offered for rattlesnake rattles was finally lifted in WI. However the populations of rattlesnakes in WI and other midwest states where the bounty was offered have never completely recovered.

...Sorry just playing a little devils advocate.

Occasionally like all of us I rely on someone elses good faith to herp. If I am visiting an area I am not familiar with I will ask for help and will usually have certain target species, I don't know if you perceive that as fast food herping or not. Having said that I don't think that spots should just be given out left and right, if a person has been around for a while and has proven themselves I will help them out. However if its a newbie i wouldn't tell them until they have some experience under their belt and have gained an appreciation or if it is someone who I feel like I don't know much about I wouldn't share with either.

Paul White
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Paul White » July 8th, 2010, 9:31 pm

So was 1975, when the bounty offered for rattlesnake rattles was finally lifted in WI. However the populations of rattlesnakes in WI and other midwest states where the bounty was offered have never completely recovered.
How long does it take crotes in WI to reach sexual maturity? I know in Texas it's only a couple of years but back home in Colorado it could be 5-6 years before a female would breed and then they'd only breed maybe 2-3 years. That just seems like it's been incredibly long for the population not to have at least made progress. Of course I was born in 84, so that skews my perspective I guess...
I freely admit to not knowing jack about the Eastern or Northern US. I've learned to field herp in a very narrow geographic range, and that's where all my observations have been made and most of my reading has focused on the southwest and Texas (since that's where I am).

edit: and my comment about it being a while back was indicating that it showed that poaching was a problem a decade ago, not that it is a current ongoing problem.

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John Martin
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by John Martin » July 8th, 2010, 9:33 pm

Well DBD, after all is said and done I think I sorta/kinda agree with you. You may have come on a bit strongly to the original poster, but you have obviously seen the negative impacts of unscrupulous collectors and are a bit "gun shy" as a result. Believe me, I've "been there, seen that" shite too, and it leaves a very long lasting bad taste in one's mouth. As others have said the guy might be fine, but maybe just a bit naive. That said, I agree in the sense of erring on the side of caution.

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Mike VanValen
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Mike VanValen » July 9th, 2010, 6:27 am

I can honestly say that 99% of my really good spots were found the old fashioned way, so I can understand Dave's reaction to yet another "spot request".

I only found this community in 2006 and before that I never had anyone to tell me where to look or even hint at good locations. I guess I'm one of those herpers that came up the old fashioned way.

These things often have a trickle effect. For example, you tell one person about a timber spot and they go on to tell a close friend.. "dude, I saw a bunch of cool rattlers the other day!".

The friend wants to know where and, of course, they get the info. The info eventually reaches the wrong person. And it's usually just an case of ignorance. People new to the hobby often don't truly understand the impact.

I've seen it happen.

I don't see where Dave accused anyone of poaching. He said he responded to a PM about poaching and was giving an example.

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ahockenberry
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by ahockenberry » July 9th, 2010, 10:14 am

I agree with Dave's sentiments for the most part. But there is alot of ignorance among people who don't realize how scarce a resource certain species are and fail to understand that if the whole world knows about den sites, it is only a matter of time before they are all cleaned out.

Perhaps a better answer to questions from these folks is simply to tell them about the type of habitat a certain species lives in and then they can search for that habitat within their state or region and then they will eventually find their target species.

Actually, I have had the same experience in fishing - people want to know all your secret spots, they want maps and details about which lures and baits to use. They need to understand that some information is priviledged and you will divulge it to whom you wish and they have not earned the right to demand it.

The other problem everyone faces is the anonymity of the Internet. How does anyone know the person on the other end of the PM or email is a legitimate hobbyist and not someone who is going to poach a threatened species and sell it for quick cash?

ElegansComplex
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by ElegansComplex » July 9th, 2010, 11:23 am

It's certainly reasonable to withhold locality information for sensitive areas/species, or because you have a special spot you don't want touched. But on the other hand, many times there are species that are plenty common, but herpers tend to focus on just a few localities that are known rather than spreading their impact around. Finding localities in the age of online museum databases and in publications is pretty easy and I think in a way, this helps the situation rather than hurts it. If locality information is saturated such that many localities are known, then overall impact is more diffuse, rather than hitting the same handful of localities over and over again (I've certainly gone on long drives to go to a specific, well-used locality to find a critter I wanted to see, only to discover it much closer to home later). I think this is definitely true for academic research; researchers tend to like to go to the same published localities over and over again for their studies, often for good reason, but often because they don't have the time to find new localities. This is a waste of gas and puts undue pressure on a single population. As to whether it's better for a species long-term persistence to sacrifice a few localities as "display sites" and leave others untouched; or it's better to spread the impact evenly across the range, I don't know. But I guess what I'm arguing is that in some situations, it can conceivably be better for more localities to be made publicly available, rather than fewer. That's not to say that you need to tell anyone about your favorite Timber Rattlesnake den site in Northern Georgia, but if you gave someone a list of 500 places where Timber Rattlesnakes have been seen (like what you would get off a museum database) it might not be such a bad thing to lessen the impact of the herping community on natural populations.

Just a thought...

Paul White
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Paul White » July 9th, 2010, 11:32 am

I'm going to reveal myself to be a noob here, but this is the first I've heard of museums having collection databases online. This promises to be interesting 8-)

HornedFrog44
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by HornedFrog44 » July 9th, 2010, 11:43 am

I feel like this is issue is really overblown on this forum. If you have a spot that you don’t want other people to know about then just don't tell them... it's as simple as that.

Back on "not allowed" I would ask for help when I was traveling to places that I was unfamiliar with and at the same time I would help other folks if I had an opportunity to. This generous and unselfish sharing of information was beneficial to me and other forum members and it oftentimes allowed us to find amazing species that we wouldn't otherwise have found. Isn't that what field herping is all about? Sure... there are some spots that I feel are too vulnerable to overcollection to be shared with others... and I don't volunteer that information, but I sure don't jump all over someone who is asking for help. It's just a matter of personal judgment and responsibility.

Also, it's a fallacy to think that you are really doing something to sincerely help a population by not telling someone about a specific spot. The impact that an individual would have collecting a few specimens is entirely insignificant compared to the impact caused by habitat destruction and non-native species. (Along the same line of thinking it's a fallacy for people to believe that their personal choices, such as driving a hybrid car or watering a yard less, are actually going to "help the environment." Your actions account for probably a billionth of a percent of the total air pollution or water usage). If you really want to help a population of snakes then figure out how to get rid of a non-native species or get really rich and buy up a few thousand acres of prime habitat to prevent future development.

Even for snakes with a small, isolated range in the United States (twin spotted rattlesnakes for example), you telling another person about the spot is not going to adversely impact the species. I could throw down an awesome, easily accessibly rock slide that is crawling with twin spots and the worst thing that would happen would be that folks would illegally collect it out and I wouldn't be able to find a twin spot on my next trip to AZ. But even still, there are hundreds of completely isolated, uncollectable rock slides in this mountain range... my telling another person about this slide would have no impact on the population as a whole.

All that is just to say that I see it pretty frequently on this forum and I don't think there is any need to jump all over someone just because they are like you and I and they like snakes and want to find cool species that they haven't found yet.

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Andrew G
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Andrew G » July 9th, 2010, 1:29 pm

This is an interesting discussion. From a newbie perspective of someone who is just trying to get into herping, and doesn't really know what to do, help from others would be great. I would never expect anyone to disclose a 'secret spot' for a rare/endangered herp, but if anyone were to help me out with spots for more common species it would be very helpful.

However, online forums due raise a lot of doubt. It is difficult to know who the other forum members actually are, and what their motivations may be, (collecting, killing snakes, etc), so I can certainly understand DBD's frustration and concern about the issue.

Andrew G.

John Kilner III
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by John Kilner III » July 9th, 2010, 1:54 pm

I think if you are actively seeking and locating threatened herp species you have a responsability to hold that information as sensitive. I will openly share locale information with proven and trusted herpers....as many have graciously done for me. I'm fairly new to this site, and wouldn't expect someone to simply hand over locale info to me. There are many ways to find out where to look....and the serious herper knows how to gather this information....the lazy herper (and the one with all too often ill intentions) tries the easiest way....by boldly asking where to go. The only way to get really good at field herping is going out into habitat and learning first hand. I guess what one does with that knowledge is of individual business, but I for one am quite guarded.

Paul White
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Paul White » July 9th, 2010, 2:07 pm

Your actions account for probably a billionth of a percent of the total air pollution or water usage)
I have to tackle this point because it makes me mad.

Saying that one person's actions don't fix the problem does not excuse that person's actions. When you feel free to point to other people and other situations and say "that's worse" and use that to excuse your own behavior it doesn't do a damn bit of good, and prevents real progress by ensuring that no one does anything since they can all point the finger elsewhere. It's the classic tu quoque fallacy.

You can't fix the world; you probably can't fix your neighborhood, but you can certainly fix yourself and that needs to be the first goal. It does a small amount of good, and it gives you credibility when you call for other people and organizations to change their behavior.

I don't mean to say that you have to drive hybrids (buying a new car to save the enivronment is counter productive given the resources and material it cost to make them). I don't mean to say you can't water your lawn. But the idea that we should excuse or allow harmful behavior simply because other people do worse is wrong headed.

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Don
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Don » July 9th, 2010, 2:22 pm

For Paul White: the museum collections are most definitely online. I'm a little distressed that the first Crotalus lepidus klauberi I found and deposited in a university museum (DIED IN CAPTIVITY!!!!! STOP THE INVECTIVE) now includes GPS coordinates on the online record. The locale wasn't a secret, as herp students were taken there on field trips. As a lab assistant, I chaperoned. But you and everyone else can now find the spot from the comfort of your easy chair. GPS didn't exist when the animal was found, someone added it after the fact.

I'm going to side with DBD for the most part. Word of mouth can be a bad thing for the future of good habitat.

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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Sean » July 9th, 2010, 6:45 pm

1

Zach Veal
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Zach Veal » July 10th, 2010, 12:38 pm

Ive heard this as well............ Besides, there is not too many "secret" spots left. I mean alot of these areas have already been discovered due to this problem anyways. Collectors will have their way. Without posting a single state park, road ect. One can put one and one together and come up with a general idea from hints in pics. Just like south east Arizona, nothing in that state is secret anymore. I wished it wasnt that way. But words get around, you really cant trust noone.

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kansascrote
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by kansascrote » July 10th, 2010, 12:54 pm

Herpetology is the branch of zoology concerned with the study of amphibians (including the frogs, toads, salamanders, newts, and gymnophionae) and of reptiles (including snakes, lizards, amphisbaenids, turtles, terrapins, tortoises, crocodilians, and the tuataras).
Herpetology is concerned with poikilothermic, ectothermic tetrapods. "Herps" (or sometimes "herptiles" or "herpetofauna") include reptiles and amphibians, but exclude fish. However, it is not uncommon for herpetological and ichthyological scientific societies to "team up", publishing joint journals and holding conferences in order to foster the exchange of ideas between the fields. One of the most prestigious organizations, the American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists, is an example of this. Many herpetological societies exist today having been formed to promote interest in reptiles and amphibians both captive and wild.
Herpetology offers benefits to humanity in the study of the role of amphibians and reptiles in global ecology, especially because amphibians are often very sensitive to environmental changes, offering a visible warning to humans that significant changes are taking place. Some toxins and venoms produced by reptiles and amphibians are useful in human medicine. Currently, some snake venom has been used to create anti-coagulants that work to treat stroke victims and heart attack cases.
The word "herpetology" is from Greek: ἑρπετόν, herpeton, "creeping animal" and -λογία, -logia. People with an avid interest in herpetology and who keep different reptiles or amphibians, often refer to themselves as "herpers."

This is what I found when I looked up Herpetology. I feel that many on this form have forgotten this. What are we here for? To find herps and take photos so we can post on this form as great herpers? Or are we here to share what we learn about the animals we all love? Yes, we need to protect these animals and there are those on this form that would use information to destroy habitat and animals but at the same time we need to remember that our combined knowledge can teach a new generation of herpers not only what we know but how to protect it! By us and I mean ALL of us closing the door to new herpers, we are sending them to other sources to find what they want to know . I would rather teach and share what I know than have a commercial collector do the teaching. Just things to think about?

ugh
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by ugh » July 10th, 2010, 7:27 pm

All very moving stuff but I fully support DBD's sentiments-I don't recall him saying anything about 'slamming doors/preventing others from learning',etc....

To the contrary,the newbie's own trials and erors is the best way to learn! What I think Dave was stressing was for all concerned to be wiser and more prudent with each of our knowledge of spots that could potentially be exploited by anyone with alterior motives,or even adversely affected inadvertently by excessive/abruptly increased foot traffic of otherwise well-intentioned herpers;both very real but different(in our eyes,though maybe not from the animals' perspective?) threats.

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Josh Holbrook
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Josh Holbrook » July 11th, 2010, 4:17 am

ugh wrote: To the contrary,the newbie's own trials and erors is the best way to learn!
If that means that a new herper should have to herp alone without more seasoned help, I completely disagree. Herping alone can be very discouraging, while having some outside help allows them to teach you proper herping ethics and field methods. Cmon - all of human history is built on the older teaching the younger.

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DCooper
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by DCooper » July 11th, 2010, 6:09 am

I can agree with that, but teaching is one thing, and handing it over on a silver platter with no lessons learned is another.

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Bryan_Hughes
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Bryan_Hughes » July 11th, 2010, 6:59 am

Raise your hand if you've never once received information from someone about a location or behavior.

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DCooper
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by DCooper » July 11th, 2010, 7:39 am

umm...behavior maybe. location never once. I've found all my locations through research, my own searches of areas, google earth, field guides and just plain old dumb luck. I've managed to find nearly everything I've set out for sooner or later.

dragoncjo
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by dragoncjo » July 11th, 2010, 3:42 pm

I 100% agree with DBD. People hand over good spots way to easily. One thing I've noticed is that when one finds stuff on their own they gain a better appreciation and knowledge. Spending months scouting and researching a species, going out and getting skunked time after time helps one understand the species better, when one finds the target it is that much more special. Its certainly acceptable to share ones knowledge with somebody but only to a certain level at some point the apprentice has to produce. I've noticed that the people who were given spots easily are always the ones who will share more readily, and on the other hand the people who tried from trial and error are always a little more uptight about sharing. I just hope the people who share so readily are willing to step up and do something about it when the spots they share get abused.

Ugh you have a classic writing style I know who you are.....DOR timber yesterday btw....just hit, brutal....

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Carl Brune
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Carl Brune » July 11th, 2010, 8:56 pm

I think you have to judge each situation on its own circumstances. I'm also not a big fan of classifying people as "trustworthy" or not so much so. Unless somebody obviously falls into the latter group, how well do you really know them and their ethics? There may be some things that are best kept to one's self, and not shared with anybody. Also, it's not just poaching and/or habitat trashing, in some cases too many (perfectly ethical) visitors cause issues.

Some sharing of information is a good thing. Understand when this is the case comes from experience, and may not always be black/white.

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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by dragoncjo » July 12th, 2010, 5:46 am

When I do share localities(which is very rare at this point) I share them with people who I know function in some capacity to help protect the habitat, watch the species, will report poachers if they see them, work with land conservation. I won't and have no desire to share locations with people who just want to see something to photograph or add to their life list, they have to be willing to protect the species too. There are also species which in my opinion the location should never be shared unless, I think its good to set hard rules for yourself like this....personally for me these are spotted turtle pools, timber dens, pine snake nesting sites, coastal spots, and wood turtle spots, will never be shared with anyone, the species just get picked up and taken home too much.

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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by ugh » July 12th, 2010, 7:24 am

Bryan_Hughes wrote:Raise your hand if you've never once received information from someone about a location or behavior.

Most of us probably have, but what's that got to do with anyone using more discretion for the sake of a population of any given species' best interest?


Carl Brune wrote:I think you have to judge each situation on its own circumstances. I'm also not a big fan of classifying people as "trustworthy" or not so much so. Unless somebody obviously falls into the latter group, how well do you really know them and their ethics? There may be some things that are best kept to one's self, and not shared with anybody. Also, it's not just poaching and/or habitat trashing, in some cases too many (perfectly ethical) visitors cause issues.

Some sharing of information is a good thing. Understand when this is the case comes from experience, and may not always be black/white.

Well said....

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Bryan_Hughes
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Bryan_Hughes » July 12th, 2010, 7:37 am

ugh wrote:

Most of us probably have, but what's that got to do with anyone using more discretion for the sake of a population of any given species' best interest?
It doesn't, just pointing out the revolving door of hypocrisy that exists in this activity.

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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Lloyd Heilbrunn » July 12th, 2010, 7:54 am

Josh Holbrook wrote:
ugh wrote: To the contrary,the newbie's own trials and erors is the best way to learn!
If that means that a new herper should have to herp alone without more seasoned help, I completely disagree. Herping alone can be very discouraging, while having some outside help allows them to teach you proper herping ethics and field methods. Cmon - all of human history is built on the older teaching the younger.
And actually dangerous, especially to the true youngsters amongst us even if they can get nonherping parents to go along......

ugh
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by ugh » July 12th, 2010, 8:09 am

Bryan-I don’t see it as hypocritical-I mean what are you saying, anyone that’s been shown any site over the years has no right to use their better judgement and withold any of their own information from anyone?

When herping sites are so variable, comparing something very temporary like a trash site that gets cleaned up every few years, versus say a unique endangered type of wetland or similar more permanent communal hibernaculum-it’s apples to oranges.I think it's a no-brainer that any herpers' responsibility is to always keep the animals' best interest(to the best of our knowledge) as priority #1.If that means losing a (would be) herping buddy or whatever,so be it.



dragoncjo wrote:..........Ugh you have a classic writing style I know who you are.....

Dragon!What'sup........
A)I have no idea what you're talking about-do i know you ?
B)You got nothin'......NOTHING! :lol:

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Bryan_Hughes
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Bryan_Hughes » July 12th, 2010, 8:21 am

ugh wrote:Brian-I don’t see it as hypocritical-I mean what are you saying, anyone that’s been shown any site over the years has no right to use their better judgement and withold any of their own information from anyone?

When herping sites are so variable, comparing something very temporary like a trash site that gets cleaned up every few years, versus say a unique endangered type of wetland or similar more permanent communal hibernaculum-it’s apples to oranges.I think it's a no-brainer that any herpers' responsibility is to always keep the animals' best interest(to the best of our knowledge) as priority #1.If that means losing a (would be) herping buddy or whatever,so be it.
That's not at all what I'm saying. I mean that reacting with anger towards new people who don't know better is a missed opportunity to teach them more responsible habits. We've all been new at some point. Anyone who expects people to fully understand the nature of what they're getting into on day one is destined for frustration. One thing is for sure ... there will be more and more herpers out there. Finding a reasonable voice as a community would be very beneficial.

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Chunkhead68
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Chunkhead68 » July 12th, 2010, 4:46 pm

The regular visitors to these forums know the unwritten rules about the dispersal of information, newcomers do not. The regulars are, in my mind, obligated to help folks out when they ask those questions. I think " hey dude, hang around the forums, use the search option on FHF, gather info independently and see what you can find" would be a lot more helpful. I don't think DBD's reply was necessary.

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Chunkhead68
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Re: FAST FOOD FIELD HERPING

Post by Chunkhead68 » July 12th, 2010, 4:48 pm

Chunkhead68 wrote:The regular visitors to these forums know the unwritten rules about the dispersal of information, newcomers do not. The regulars are, in my mind, obligated to help folks out when they ask those questions. I think " hey dude, hang around the forums, use the search option on FHF, gather info independently and see what you can find" would be a lot more helpful. I don't think DBD's reply was necessary.
Had I seen Bryan_Hughes' response I could have saved myself some time. Well put, brother.

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