I postulate that my path from full blown and unapolegetic supporter of environmentalists to complete disdain for these people is not an uncommon trajectory. I freely admit that upon my first login to this site, I had no doubts that the personnel at local nature centers knew best and that organizations such as "Defenders of Wildlife" had nothing but the best of intentions. The fact is, it's only been six years and change since I've joined this site and my opinions have done a 360! The people I held in high regard, I often now hold in high contempt. I am sure I must not be alone in this opnion and the more facts I gather, the stronger my opinion on the subject grows. My opinion of people who are classified as scientists remains neutral, the older they are, the more I find I tend to find their opinions fair and balanced, but of the type of people that call themselves environmentalists, I tend to find them as relatively useless individuals willing to say or do anything regardless of the ethical implications.

360° = 0°

Thank you

George Carlin, brilliant and on the money.

George Carlin - Saving Endangered Species is Wrong!

A solid, evidence-based analysis of the subject. Where did he get his degree from?

So what do you define as an environmentalist?

The dictionary definition is pretty broad:
en·vi·ron·men·tal·ist
1.
a person who is concerned with or advocates the protection of the environment.
synonyms: conservationist, preservationist, ecologist, nature lover; More

I don't believe that you're saying you hold in contempt anyone who is concerned with the protection of the environment. So what is it that you're getting at?

Can you present some more evidence that the climate is "actually cooling"? I'm not willing to take Mark Levine's word on this.

The climate is changing due to combustion of fossil fuels, generally warming at a predictable rate. This warming is having a litany of ecological consequences rising sea levels, warming oceans, and loss of glaciers. In terms of biodiversity, there will be winners and losers, but overall we are losing biodiversity as a result of human caused climate change. Call me a lemming if you must but lemmings are cool and feed a lot of snowy owls, a relationship intimately related to climate change.


https://www.ipcc.ch/
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimf ... of_like_i/

Fieldnotes,

Out of curiosity, why do you delete some of your posts?

Stlouisdude, I'm interested in hearing some examples of what happened to bring you to feel this way?

Bryan, perhaps it is a way of making a statement and then making sure it isnt a permanent one, in the case of alienation of potential customer base of a cottage industry type pursuit.

a person may harangue a person for their political beliefs, yet wouldnt turn down their money.

I cant think of any other reason why someone wouldnt remain accountable to their own strongly expressed comment.

Sometimes I post after tossing a couple down. Then in the morning, I realize, i don't want to bother explaining or debating. I feel, it would be ruder to post something and never respond than to delete it. I suppose its kind'a like "buyers remorse." And as Kelly put it, I'm not a follower of political correctness and I don't need that permanently record. Perhaps my son will be the leader of the Free-world someday, heck, if Trump did it, anyone, accept Hillary can do it. But more than not being PC, I realize later, I just don't want to follow up to post-after-post. Then a month later, bam, its back at the top of the forum, and things start all over again.

That honesty is fantastically refreshing

I agree!

this thread gave me cancer.

I use to be a human-caused climate change denier. Circa 2000 or so.

I no longer deny we are causing it. We are, and it is bad, very bad.

Not sure when I switched.

this is how I've come to disdain herpers

Don't worry...Trump is going to fix everything. He's going to make America great again. It's going to be Amazing and Terrific...and I'm sure the new coal mines and steel mills will have no effect on global warming...

So, I got here late...what is the point of this thread anyway?

I was hoping the OP would come back and elaborate. All I can think is some in the field of environmentalism may go in with pure scientific intentions, but end up being swayed by politics or consumed with bureaucratic matters, and he/she had negative interactions with such people

HSUS & PETA are targeting "ALL" pets, pet owners, and breeders! These two radical animal rights groups and others have been attacking our American Freedoms for a long time using scare tactics (including advocating TERRORIST activities like arson by setting fires and bombing businesses), falsified reports, and phony research to get our government to unfairly strip us of our rights to own pets!

THINK WE'RE KIDDING? Years ago they tried to get House Resolution 669 passed that would have change how the US government classifies animals that are not native to the United States. Animals such as many Reptiles and Amphibians (from around the world); Hamsters (Syria); Gerbils (Asia, India, Africa); Guinea Pigs (Peru); Chinchillas (Chile, Bolivia, Argentina and Peru); Tropical Birds like Parrots, Parakeets, Cockatiels, even Finches (from around the world); both Tropical and Saltwater Fish; many Invertebrates like pet Tarantulas; and many others would have been effected by this bill had it passed and it would have made YOU & YOUR CHILDREN an instant criminal for just having them

THEY WANT TO KILL THE ENTIRE PET INDUSTRY, (INCLUDING CATS & DOGS) PUTTING MILLIONS OF AMERICANS OUT OF WORK!

Many of these far left liberal nut jobs have infiltrated many of our government's agencies like the USFS, BLM, NPS, USF&W, EPA and now work for them while destroying our liberties and freedoms from within! Others have backed many "Environmental Groups" that also want to keep hard working Americans from being able to make out an honest living from a MULTI-MILLION dollar pet industry.

I have come to realize that there is a "HUGE DIFFERENCE" between the Corrupt Cultish Environmental Movement and what I refer to as Conservation.

Environmental groups like PETA, HSUS, EARTH LIBERATION FRONT, Green Peace, and Earth First (to name but a few) and,...
Legitimate and Law abiding Conservation Groups who actually care for both the animals and the habitat they live in "ARE NOT THE SAME!"

Conservation Groups like Ducks Unlimited, National Wild Turkey Federation, Quail Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Safari Club International, Trout Unlimited, The Federation of Flyfishers, have done more to clean up once destroyed habitat and reintroduce many native species back into their historical range where they belong then any "So-called animal rights group has, or even would do.

Many of these true heroes working for conservation groups have worked diligently to both purchase property (improving nesting grounds, watersheds, shelter, and availability of natural food sources for "ALL" species of animals) and on property already owned for the enjoyment of not just hunters and fishermen, but for all present and future generations of Americans who enjoy the great outdoors!

Peta, Humane Society etc etc dont really care or know about reptiles.

We are all they got and its either wishy washy "I dont have thoughts on it one way or another.."

Or a hannibal lecterism of inert brain pathways and salivating consumption.

We are all they got and we need to do it better.

To not surpass the condition that we live in a market dominated society and allow that to be a preoccupation in the value grid of decisions about wild animals, while calling out the "abominations" done to scientific integrity shows how out of touch with original reality some peoples positions are.

Hey I really didnt mean to be mean spirited about the Hannibal Lecter personification.

The character of Dr Lecter was intelligent, well respected professionally and piously convinced of his own rationale - his "prey" were only those he deemed lesser than, and expendable.

Emotions as a capacity arent bad or weak, they allow us to detect, resist, intervene and act in relationship with knowledge.

The more capacities the better imo

It kills me when people call them "environmentalists". There is a giant gap between "environmentalists" and "animal rights activists" like those two. It's technically possible to be both at the same time, but it's not automatic or even natural.

Its tricky. Lables, Groups.

There is a real opportunity for examining definitions and intention in the herp genre.

Alot of hitchhiking on ideologies takes place and none of them fit well.

Guess it is federal & state laws which are designed to protect reptile exploitation. But without a requirement for a bio-impact survey ordered before obtaining a construction permit, a housing addition can be built right on top of a hibernation den. Seen it happen around Kansas. Then over the years the residents are upset about copperheads and rattlesnakes showing up on their lawns.

I am setting up a service for capture and relocating snakes around my area. Have to obtain some kind of permit myself from the state I believe. I have not set up a website as yet but am working on it since spring is when people will be calling.

Good for you Vontrek....
You should do well, and you will actually be saving the animals you relocate.
At least you are trying. Police, Fire, and Animal Control really like turning snake removal over to professionals.
I am truly not joking. They are seldom trained, and their time could be spent doing something they know how to do. Keep all you paperwork up to date. Get a business license in what ever area you are going to work. Write receipts and keep copies. Go by Police, Fire, and Animal Control agencies and make an appointment with an administrator. Go dressed professionally and sell yourself. Give them a hand full of business cards and let them know your hours. All of them hate to work at night and on holidays.

Let me clarify from experience. The administrators of those agencies hate to pay overtime or for extra personnel nights and holidays.

Look and act professional in the public eye.

Good Luck...

"......Guess it is federal & state laws which are designed to protect reptile exploitation. But without a requirement for a bio-impact survey"

Wha countrae da ye live in citybhoy? Do ye suck Boris's or Gary's? Those are onlae twa levels. Google international level protection. Ta mae you're one step above a provo. Maybe ya need to reconsider your alliance with such plastic hunns before you decide to live behind the wire. Or other than that, if ye assosiate with Johnny Adiar, move ta Germany.

Then there is the local level (I.E. state and national park regs).
PS. Stop huffing the magic dragon or watch yer jackboot round me people.

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Keep this forum clear of stupidity please. Alas we have enough of it.