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 Post subject: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: July 31st, 2010, 9:36 pm 
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Joined: June 10th, 2010, 2:44 pm
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Location: Florida
This may have been brought up before, but I was wondering what type of protection (Firepower) people take with them when they are going to be packing it into nowhereville? I recently did some hiking in the Appalachian Mountains. Before heading out, I checked with a few people who are familiar with the area. All advise to pack a min. of a .41 mag. or even better a .44 mag (both hot loaded) due to bears. The 10mm which I thought might work, was laughed at. While the chances are slim an issue would arise, it only takes one issue to void ones life. Especially when you're in the middle of nowhere.
What's your opinion?
Handguns only, I'm not going to lug a 308 down the trail!


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: July 31st, 2010, 9:57 pm 
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Joined: June 27th, 2010, 7:31 pm
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Location: NW Florida
I have been wondering the same thing. Not for the animals I may encounter but the people. The first time I went out down here in Pensacola a car load of people decided to slow down while I was walking alongside the road. They didn't stop but I felt a little vulnerable. I am carrying around a camera and GPS and don't want to get robbed over my crappy stuff I carry around or my locked van broken into while it is on the side of the road (I guess nothing would help my van if I am 2 miles in the woods though)!


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: July 31st, 2010, 10:08 pm 
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If you're that worried about black bears, I suggest you stay home.

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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: July 31st, 2010, 10:11 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:57 am
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I dealt with bears every day growing up, and have had a large male visiting me every night for the past few weeks. I don't understand what there is to be afraid of?

Just be smart, don't poke it in the eye with a stick and you oughta be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: July 31st, 2010, 10:18 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:30 pm
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Location: St Louis, MO / Hartford, CT
In most places, middle of nowhere is the safest place! You'll need the firepower in a lot of big cities, though. Few animals are as unpredictable or dangerous as the human.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: July 31st, 2010, 11:06 pm 
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Location: New Yawk
I'm never afraid of the critters when I'm out by myself in the middle of nowhere at night, it's people that freak me out. Unless the other person is herping (unlikely), why the hell are they out in the middle of nowhere at night?


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: July 31st, 2010, 11:14 pm 

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 6:29 am
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I, also, do not carry because of animals but because of the people.

Tend to carry a Walther P99 9mm, but I switch it up depending on how I am dressed and where I am going to be herping.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 12:21 am 
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Location: Arizona
Im sure some Arizona herpers will agree, but If you are herping in the southern parts of the state, it is just plain reckless not to carry protection. I would welcome the sight of a mountain lion on the trail at night over armed drug/human smugglers any day!


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 2:41 am 
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Location: Bakersfield CA
Bears are not of any concern while in the woods but I too carry to protect myself from the pot farmers In the mountains and the crazy tweakers that roam the desert. My weapon of choice is the Springfield XD40, either that or num chucks.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 4:33 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:01 pm
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in some states(jersey comes to mind. :shock: ..) only the bad guys are packin'... :x ...go figure!!!!!!.... :crazyeyes:


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 4:54 am 
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Location: Australia
I'm going to concur with everyone else here - I grew up in Canada and bears were just a part of the camping experience - It never occurred to myself or anyone I knew to bring a gun along for protection. I've had bears come walking through camp, both by day and by night, and have stumbled across them in all sorts of circumstances out in the bush. If you just keep your cool nothing will happen. Don't ever take food into your tent, though. Before you go to sleep, hoist your food high off the ground where the bears can't reach it. On back country canoe trips we used to string a rope between two trees and set up a pulley system in the middle to lift a plastic barrel containing the food high off the ground. The further out in the 'middle of nowhere' you are, the less likely you'll have troubles with bears, anyway. They're only dangerous near popular camping areas where they associate people with food and become habituated.

I reckon the people that gave you the advise were hoping that they, themselves, would have an excuse to use their .44 magnum.

Bringing a gun along to protect yourself from people - well, that's something else. We've all seen Deliverance :)


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 4:55 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:01 am
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Notread wrote:
I, also, do not carry because of animals but because of the people...


This ^^^.

I never make a big deal about it but my wife knows that the .45 is always in my backpack whenever we go on a road trip.

Animals are no concern. The concern is that we break down or get stranded somewhere rural and that if I need to hike out for help or leave her with the vehicle, then she will have a gun available while I am gone.

It has never come to that and I hope it never will but that card is always in our hand.


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PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 5:42 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:02 am
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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 6:50 am 
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In bear country I carry an RPG-7. Any bear that so much as gives me the stink eye, I'll turn that turd into a doughnut.

Damn bears better keep their booger hooks off my picinic basket.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 7:13 am 
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Location: Florida
Thanks for the replies and input. And yes I agree that the worst thing that can happen is meeting up with the bad human on the trail. The second worst thing would be having to take the life of a majestic creature like a bear. I do agree that there is less than a .1 % chance that a "bear encounter" would lead to a human/bear confrontation/attack, but they do occur on rare occasions and are usually fatal to the human. There is actually some pretty good data out there that tracks human/bear confrontations ( Black, Polar, Brown, Kodiak, etc.) that lead to human injury or death (highest % is death). States show that since the mid 1990's both attacks and human deaths have been on the rise. This is blamed on the increased number of people feeding the animals. Without getting into the statistical data, carrying protection is insurance that you never hope you use. Another interesting fact was that appropriate "bear spray" (aka giant can of pepper spray) was considered to be one of the most effective when used properly. It just has to be a giant can of it. Most encounters where bear spray was used, the bear required a second blast, as most of the time, the bear took a second run at the person before retreating. I can't remember the ounce size that was recommended, but it was the size of a large spray paint can with the trigger mech. on top of it. Data also showed it was one of the least likely ones to be carried due to it's size. Smaller sized bear sprays are available, but there is record of bears not being deterred from a single blast, and returning to attack. ( not that the can is empty )
Not sure if anyone on this forum hunts with a handgun? I'd like to hear their thoughts regarding fps & energy levels within a safe range.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 7:37 am 

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 6:29 am
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Up here, black bears seem to go hand and hand with the herping experience and are encountered quite regularly. (Especially while looking for our vipers). There was only one time where I was really scared. Millside and I were hiking out to a suspected rattlesnake spot in Western Virginia when we accidentally separated a mother and it's cubs. The bear did a false charge at us, barreling down on us faster than one of those scary mini-buses in the Bahamas. It stopped about 15 feet from us (if my memory is correct). At the speed it charged us, and the fact that we didn't even know it was there until it started running toward us, there is no way in the world would I have been able to draw down on that bear if it was a real charge (and I can draw quick).

I was pretty much freaking on the inside, but Millside held his cool and did everything right; Make yourself look bigger, and in a deep and loud voice, yell at the bear to go away.

In that situation a holstered weapon or a can of bear spray in the backpack just isn't going to do anything for you. Fortunately our black bears in PA and Northern NJ are shy (except where morons are feeding them) and will typically leave people alone.

I'd still like to echo the sentiment from others in this thread that I'd rather keep encountering bear than stumbling on a meth lab or human/drug trafficking.

Hmm, come to think about it, I ran into some "bears" under a highway overpass across some river in Texas once. They scared me a little bit too. But they were the talking kind. Eventually, I realized why they were so excited when I would tell them I was looking for snakes. Lesson learned.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 7:41 am 

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 6:29 am
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M Wolverton wrote:
In bear country I carry an RPG-7. Any bear that so much as gives me the stink eye, I'll turn that turd into a doughnut.

Damn bears better keep their booger hooks off my picinic basket.


That is too funny. :thumb:

Be careful the bear do not learn to up-armor. You will know if you see them pushing a mobile chain link fence shield in front of them with a long stick for a buffer zone. Those bear can be crafty. Once one learns how to defeat RPG round, it is all over.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 8:56 am 
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M Wolverton wrote:
In bear country I carry an RPG-7.


That's a good start, but you'll want tactical air backup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9La3Yc2u3NM


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 9:19 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:52 pm
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I'd urge anyone thinking of carrying a handgun for protection against bears to take a long hard look at how good/quick they are with said handgun first. Hitting a moving target, while your blood's pumping and your heart's pounding and you're thinking OHELLI'MGONNADIE is pretty hard. And bears move fast. And are very tough. Hitting a black bear with a .44 mag won't do any good if it's in the leg or paunch; it'll kill it eventually but not quickly, and you're still there for it to beat up on meanwhile.
That said, I grew up in lion/bear country...had a bear take a stringer of fish while I was camping once, and one got into our trash at home one time but it's not *usually* an issue. Lions worry me more than bears, and people worry me more than either...


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 9:45 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 12:56 pm 
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It is amazing how often this topic comes up. I feel sorry for you guys if the areas that you visit are so bad that you have to "carry". Maybe you shift your herping trips to Oz where it is safe!

Regards,
David


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 1:19 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:52 pm
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realistically it's dead safe. We're more at danger from the elements than anything else (heatstroke sucks).


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 1:41 pm 
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craigb wrote:

"A gun is like a condum.



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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 2:28 pm 
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Paul White wrote:
realistically it's dead safe. We're more at danger from the elements than anything else (heatstroke sucks).


Agreed. I like me some guns as much as the next guy, and I have herped extensively in areas that are home to lots of criminal activity and large predators, but I never felt that a gun would make me any safer. Too many folks out there with fantasies of protecting themselves with a firearm, when realistically you're more likely to get struck by lightning.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 3:02 pm 
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atheris978 wrote:
I do agree that there is less than a .1 % chance that a "bear encounter" would lead to a human/bear confrontation/attack, but they do occur on rare occasions and are usually fatal to the human. There is actually some pretty good data out there that tracks human/bear confrontations ( Black, Polar, Brown, Kodiak, etc.) that lead to human injury or death (highest % is death).


I would say less than 0.01% chance when it comes to black bears. Take a look at that data again, and figure out how many of the deaths involved black bears and adult men. It is a very, very, very, very low number.

Now, if anyone here herps in significant grizzly territory, that might be another story.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 3:57 pm 
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Quote:
We've all seen Deliverance


If the city folk would stay out of the dang woods there wouldn't be no problem! :crazyeyes:

RW


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 4:06 pm 
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PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 4:32 pm 
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Mark Hamilton wrote:
Im sure some Arizona herpers will agree, but If you are herping in the southern parts of the state, it is just plain reckless not to carry protection. I would welcome the sight of a mountain lion on the trail at night over armed drug/human smugglers any day!



I love the Az mentality about bringing a hand gun to automatic weapon fight... what freaking drug dealers do you really think any hand gun is going to keep you safe from?? All I heard from anybody out there was that I should be packing a hand gun to keep me safe from the "Mexicans" :lol: :lol: :lol: You end up with this image of some zombie movie where I need to find my boom stick. :crazyeyes:

Jason


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 8:02 pm 
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moloch wrote:
Maybe you shift your herping trips to Oz where it is safe!

(except for British backpackers in the NT) ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 9:03 pm 
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So back to the original question, I don't see why a 10mm with a good hunting load wouldn't be adequate provided you can access it quickly if needed, but it would seem a very rare circumstance that you would. Sure it doesn't have the energy of a .44 mag, but beats a .357 or .45 ACP and equals 45 super. You didn't say if you had one already. If not, maybe a 4" bbl .44 mag might be a better choice.

How about pepper spray? (I had to ask). I hike in cat country all the time and I bring my hound as a deterent (OK, bait) and pepper spray hanging from my pack shoulder strap and I'm not worried about them even though I've seen a few pig carcasses. I guess it helps when I have a dog that doesn't care about snakes and I can actually shoot pictures of herps with her with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 9:20 pm 
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I like the condom comparison. :lol:
While a lot of what is said is very true, it only takes one time! Click your seatbelt 100,000 times and you are helping protect yourself. Forget it when you should have clicked it... and you can end up dead. It's just a statistical fact. You can't be 100% prepared for every situation, but you can try to prepare for most.
Very true that the biggest threat by far when field herping are the "bad people" That's why I implied far away, a day or two hike from civilization. Maybe not even in the USA. Let's say in a foreign land that has bears. Bears pose a special problem ballistically due to their skull and muscle structure. Protection from big cats, K-9 species, etc. are much simpler to stop. I was more interested in statistical data referring to muzzle energy that was required to stop an attack with a high percentage of success from a bear. The FBI maintains a master database for ballistics involving shootings for humans. It is broken down by caliber and can be cross referenced by number of bullets required to stop the subject. The type or make of the bullet can also be cross referenced. There are literally thousands of pages of the data. Because it is the FBI, 99.9% of the data gathered is law enforcement calibers. (9mm, 38, 357, 40, 45acp) No LE agency out there carrying .41 magnums that I know of. I'm hoping for some hardcore reloader or hunter to give their opinion. Anyone know what the hottest load a 10mm can handle safely?
Also, anyone out there carry an epi-pen just in case they screw up enough to get tagged when out in the field?


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 9:35 pm 
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atheris978 wrote:
I like the condom comparison. :lol:
While a lot of what is said is very true, it only takes one time! Click your seatbelt 100,000 times and you are helping protect yourself. Forget it when you should have clicked it... and you can end up dead. It's just a statistical fact. You can't be 100% prepared for every situation, but you can try to prepare for most.


I don't agree with the comparison, because there is statistical evidence that wearing a seatbelt is safer than not wearing a seatbelt. For instance, in 2000, when looking at all persons who were in car accidents in which at least one person died in the United States, 27% of those who were wearing seat belts died, whereas 55% of those who were not wearing seatbelts died. That's an enormous difference.

However, there is no evidence at all that carrying a gun makes you safer in the woods. In fact, the number of adult men in the United States who die due to gunshot wounds from carrying their own gun in the woods is greater than the number who die due to bear attacks. And even if you do get attacked by a black bear, there's no evidence that carrying a gun is more likely to save you - the right bear spray could be more effective, and there are many situations with a gun where you may be unable to shoot, miss the shot, shoot the bear but not stop it, or even further antagonize it. Do you have any evidence that shooting at the bear is more likely to stop a charge than doing what Millside did?

Then, backing off human death for an instant, there's the increased chance that you end up shooting a bear that wasn't going to do anything to you, but was just false charging. Take the story with Notread and Millside. They weren't armed, ended up fine, mama bear lived. What would you have done in the same situation if you had a gun?

So sure, carry a gun if it makes you feel safer. I have no problem at all with people carrying guns in the woods, and have probably done it quite a bit more myself than most people on this forum. But don't pretend there is any "statistical fact" that a gun makes you the least bit safer than not having a gun.


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PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 9:51 pm 
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Owen,
Don't know how I did it, but missed your post.
No, I don't have a field pack gun as of yet. Dealing with humans most often, I made the mistake of thinking my .45acp hot loaded would do the trick on bears. You know how us .45 acp guys are. Sometimes too much wind in the sails. ;) The .44 mag with a 4" is what I was leaning towards. Short enough, but not too short as to give up energy levels. My buddy decided his 10mm with 15 rounds was what he wanted. The 15 rounds in the compact size of the Glock is nice, but nowhere near a hot 44 mag load. However, I would happily pass of the 44 mag if something smaller was reasonable. I also figured that if I step up to the 41 mag, I might as well just go with the 44 mag. Your thoughts? I know it's a lot of thought into something I hope I never use.
Why isn't there a mid sized frame auto out there that can handle a round with... say 900 ft. lbs. of energy. The technology has to be out there.


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PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 10:01 pm 
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No I didn't mean a statistical fact of being safer... I meant stat. data in ref. to the # of shots to stop the target. Or can it even be done? There are way to many variable to even try to do those calculations. (i.e safer) In fact, it might have a "cockiness" effect on some people... leading to more dangerous situations.
As far as the seatbelt thing goes. Just like statistics, there is always going to be a way of proving a point with selective data. Not wearing a seat belt is going to be a really hard sale. Unless of course you've been choked as you go to bail out while road cruising! :lol: Honda with those auto seatbelts nearly took my head off several times.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 10:14 pm 
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10mm? I know for a fact that dumping a clip of .40 does not stop a bear., nor did the second clip stop him immediately. Yes it slowed him down and it eventualy died but... Now I also know that one shot from a S&W 460 or 500 does the trick. So if your that concerned carry the 500, or does the 10mm fit better in your purse. :lol:

story behind the bear shot with the 40
A client tuckered out and could not make it to the tree. So two individuals, both with bear tags went to the tree to get the dogs with no intentions of killing the bear. At the point of leashing up the dogs the bear decided he had enough and chose to fight rather then run off into the woods. only one person had a gun and it happened to be an xd40. The bear was killed, tagged, skinned out and packed out legally. Like I said I'd no one had intentions of shooting a beer with a small caliber handgun to see how many shots it would take. It just happened that way.


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PostPosted: August 1st, 2010, 11:27 pm 
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PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 12:01 am 

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Location: seminole county, fl
I dont feel like im ever gonna get attacked by a bear or anything really, but me and my mom go herping in bear/pig country and she thinks she needs some kind of protection. I wouldnt shoot a bear unless I was on the ground and the bear was biting me. but still my mom just bought a 9mm berreta and I told her thats not gonna stop a bear but she doesnt believe me, I know im not gonna have to use it but whatever lets me go herping more im ok with.


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PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 12:46 am 
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atheris978 wrote:
I made the mistake of thinking my .45acp hot loaded would do the trick on bears. You know how us .45 acp guys are. Sometimes too much wind in the sails. ;) The .44 mag with a 4" is what I was leaning towards. Short enough, but not too short as to give up energy levels. My buddy decided his 10mm with 15 rounds was what he wanted. The 15 rounds in the compact size of the Glock is nice, but nowhere near a hot 44 mag load. However, I would happily pass of the 44 mag if something smaller was reasonable. I also figured that if I step up to the 41 mag, I might as well just go with the 44 mag. Your thoughts? I know it's a lot of thought into something I hope I never use.
Why isn't there a mid sized frame auto out there that can handle a round with... say 900 ft. lbs. of energy. The technology has to be out there.

To paraphrase an old joke (ironically involving a bear in the woods being shot at) "you ain't here for the herpin', are ya?"


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PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 8:50 am 
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I know three guys who had their handguns stolen from parked vehicles while they were on their way to/from the field. One was putting air in his mntn bike tires at the time, one had his car broken into when he was "in the can" , and another "un-packed" when he took a dip in a local swimming hole. Thanks, guys. Your need to feel safe put the rest of us in danger. I feel reeeal safe now. I know from personal experience that there are three reliable predator avoidance/deterrence techniques that don't involve guns:
1) walking/running away,
2) keeping your mouth shut, and
3) brandishing a snake (dead or alive). Prolly doesn't work on bears, though.
AGG


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 9:03 am 
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Joined: July 3rd, 2010, 6:24 am
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Location: Texas
Critters are not an issue to me. Its the nuts that one might run into that cause me to pack heat.
Usually a H&K P2000 or just the beast seen here.
Image
She'll take care of most issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 9:09 am 
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Location: Ventura, CA
Quote:
She'll take care of most issues.


Including your hemmoroids when an attacker shoves it up your... JK, couldn't help myself ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 9:33 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:52 pm
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Location: Amarillo, Texas
Sam: there's also those of us who've seen what animal attacks can do :) Even though I've never been mauled/injured myself I've seen what happens and I'd rather avoid it.

My high school (Idaho Springs Colorado) had a guy get *eaten* by a young male cougar on our track back before I went there. Sort of left an imprint on the culture I grew up in. This was a straight up predatory ambush attack...cougar ate lots of Scott. There was also the triple mauling in Yellowstone last week...and wasn't there another fatal one this year there already? And a few years ago a troop of boy scouts in NM had a run in with a black bear...it happens.
Acting like bears aren't dangerous is just as silly as acting like they're all man eating monsters. You just take some precautions (bear spray, no food, etc) and hope it works out while accepting there's still some risk.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 9:42 am 
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Location: Bakersfield CA
Sam Sweet wrote:
Image


Are you referring to me? I have seen as many bears as you have seen salamanders. I have had several encounters with bears with and without dogs and know there behavior well. Bears are very sketchy unaggresive animals but every now and again one decides to beat the crap out of someone. It always seems to be one of theses "anti hunter, look at the cuddly bear" type people.

if your ever in the area Sam I would be more then happy to take you on a bear hunt. Not a kill just a tree.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 9:57 am 
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Mike Waters wrote:
Bears are very sketchy unaggresive animals but every now and again one decides to beat the crap out of someone. It always seems to be one of theses "anti hunter, look at the cuddly bear" type people.


Can you give any evidence for this involving Black Bears?

Or, a more relevant question, how many times have bears attacked and killed adult men in reasonable herping habitat in your lifetime? Is that number greater or smaller than the number of people killed by car accidents or an accidental gun discharge, say, this week? And how many of those deaths would have been prevented by the victim carrying a pistol?


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 10:04 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:01 am
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Gluesenkamp wrote:
I know three guys who had their handguns stolen from parked vehicles while they were on their way to/from the field..


Speaking only for myself, the backpack with the pistol is never beyond arm's reach. Never "left in the car", "left at camp", etc. Nobody knows I have it, but I never treat it casually, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 10:17 am 
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A gun won't protect anyone from a cougar attack. If a cougar wants to eat you, he's going to stalk you from behind. That said, I believe that most people who are attacked by cougars are women or children under 5'4 (I need to find the source, but it exists somewhere).


As for black bears, simply don't mess with them, and you will be fine. In addition, most people cite the old case of getting between a mother with cubs. Most of the time, she will mock charge you. There are so few records of black bears hurting people, it makes the risk almost negligible, even from a mother with cubs.

Most bears will run from you when they catch a drift of your scent, let alone see you. I used to go to a boy scout camp where, although the bears are desensitized to humans, at 14 I was still able to scare them away simply by yelling at them.

Grizzlies are another story though :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 10:22 am 
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jonathan wrote:
Mike Waters wrote:
Bears are very sketchy unaggresive animals but every now and again one decides to beat the crap out of someone. It always seems to be one of theses "anti hunter, look at the cuddly bear" type people.


Can you give any evidence for this involving Black Bears?

Or, a more relevant question, how many times have bears attacked and killed adult men in reasonable herping habitat in your lifetime? Is that number greater or smaller than the number of people killed by car accidents or an accidental gun discharge, say, this week? And how many of those deaths would have been prevented by the victim carrying a pistol?


You seem to have missed my point Johny, what I'm saying is that beers rarely attack amd if they do your not going to kill it with your pistol. When bears do attack its usualy around camp sites where bears eat peoples left overs, garbage etc.. An old lady that lived up rancheria use to call the cops on hunters everytime someone drove bye with a dog box. She would preach to us about hunting and killing bears. Two years ago she got attacked by a bear and then she wanted it destroyed. Point is it does happen but not likely. "killed by car accidents" come on dude keep this legit don't start being rediculous. It seems you do just enjoy a good pointless argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 10:37 am 
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John Vanek wrote:
A gun won't protect anyone from a cougar attack. If a cougar wants to eat you, he's going to stalk you from behind. That said, I believe that most people who are attacked by cougars are women or children under 5'4 (I need to find the source, but it exists somewhere:


Negative ghost rider. Cougars don't kill you instantly, there is a struggle and with a holstered pistol you could pull it and defend yourself. One of the cases of cougar attacks is where a couger pounced on a roadbike rider killed and ate him. Then a while later did it again and when someone saw the attack and fought of the lion the other rider was found. If either individual had a fun they likely would not have died. Given the generally attack women, elderly, or children if they are desperate enough to try and eat a man they will. A lion attacked a girl up near johnnsondale, her boyfriend heard her scream. Bye the time he fought the lion off with sticks and rocks his girlfriends face and body was severely mailed and she lost her eye. If it had been My wife and I heard her scream the extend of damage would have been considerably less because I would have poked a few holes in Mr lion and ended the attack early.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 10:44 am 
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Location: Clifton, Arizona
I prefer bear spray. It's the perfect deterrent for all manner of hostile encounters, except of course for someone else pointing a gun in your face....
Also a great way to spice up bologna sandwiches. (Disclaimer: Don't blame me if you don't like it.)

As for having a cougar on your back, a sharp sturdy sheath knife is what you need to draw.


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 Post subject: Re: Protecting yourself when out in the field. Way out!!!
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2010, 10:55 am 
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reptilist wrote:
I prefer bear spray. It's the perfect deterrent for all manner of hostile encounters, except of course for someone else pointing a gun in your face....
Also a great way to spice up bologna sandwiches. (Disclaimer: Don't blame me if you don't like it.)

As for having a cougar on your back, a sharp sturdy sheath
knife is what you need to draw.


In the event of the Johnsondale attack the lion was stabbed twice in the chest with a "survival knife" with no effect. Your best bet if unarmed is to punch stab bite the lion on the nose.

I have heard mixed reports on bear spray. What I understand is that the stuff you buy that say "bear spray" is not potent enough to detour a bear attack in the event it realy wants to attack. There is some stuff you can buy, don't recal the name, that is suppose to work great. If anyone is interested in the name of the good stuff I will find out.


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