Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Extended discussion forum.

Moderator: Scott Waters

Post Reply
User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 2nd, 2012, 3:09 pm

Hello fellow Herpers,

I have been an active member in the Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups (RARR) facebook page for a while now and we are trying to share videos for public awareness. These videos showcase the cruelty that occurs at these roundups and I believe open people's eyes to what these snakes go through. Please watch as I debunk some of the myths associated with rattlesnakes and inform people on what can be done to stop this. The more people we can share this with, the more likely the message will reach someone capable of actually changing these events. If you are willing, please post this video on your facebook page, website, email it to people, etc. Thank you and God Bless.

Orry Martin



If the video does not embed. Please Click here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8EyGbxM ... ature=plcp

User avatar
Biker Dave
Posts: 2854
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 6:56 pm
Location: Wittmann,AZ

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Biker Dave » August 2nd, 2012, 6:16 pm

Hey Orry

Who doesn't like your videos? If anyone has a problem with Orry please say what it is so we can get past it.

I met Orry a couple weeks back and he is a straight up guy who really cares about the herps and herp conservation.

His association with Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups (RARR) is a good thing in my opinion.

Thats my two cents...

Dave Weber
President, AZ Chapter

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 2nd, 2012, 7:34 pm

Hey Big Dave!

Great to see you on here man! I enjoy seeing people that I know on here! I am not naming anyone specific, but I have had some very rude, disrespectful people message me on here. That's why I typically stay away from this site. Since this video could help to save the lives of many snakes though, I figured I'd put up with the insults and try and share it with people who care. Thanks for the kind words brother.

User avatar
AtroxKR
Posts: 142
Joined: May 14th, 2012, 10:23 am
Location: Leander, TX
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by AtroxKR » August 2nd, 2012, 7:40 pm

Didn't know you posted here, Orry. (This is Kenneth, from RRAR).

I put up a post in the Board line about the roundups. A few views, but 0 replies.

And if anyone here doesn't like what you do, (Education), somethings seriously wrong.

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 2nd, 2012, 7:53 pm

Kenneth,
I saw your post and noticed the same thing...no replies. I figured I'd try and now that we are getting more RARR members in here, maybe we can keep this thing bumped up. Thanks for the compliments brother and it is great to see you on here. Let's try and get more field herp forum members to help share :)

bgorum
Posts: 618
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:46 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by bgorum » August 2nd, 2012, 8:22 pm

I posted the video to my facebook cage. Of course about half my friends are herp people, so they’re probably already on board. Ps, I love your videos!

VICtort
Posts: 688
Joined: July 2nd, 2010, 5:48 pm
Location: AZ.

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by VICtort » August 2nd, 2012, 8:25 pm

Preachin' to the Choir? I tend to agree with you, but I wonder if applying logic to this emotion, cultural and financial based activity will be effective? It has been a frequent topic of discussion herein. Also, I wish you luck and every success in taking on this established and bizarre cultural phenomenon. I think serious pressure should be brought to bear on the various agencies who are failing to enforce existing laws regarding animal cruelty, health & safety and possibly food safety laws. The arbitrary and capricious ways that Texas and other states apply to animals/wildlife issues makes no sense, this activity you document so well would simply not be tolerated with almost any other animal, and that should be a major point when confronting agencies. With the $ and local fame involved with participants, I think it unlikely they will change. Perhaps if the agencies were forced to take action (and publicly pilloried if they fail to do so...), maybe some changes would occur regarding cruelty etc.? I think boycots should be considered regarding media sponsors, and I will continue to try and educate folks... but I think the folks that support these events don't want to be educated or change that which has brought them fame and fortune...to an otherwise dreary existence? Do you have any contacts with the press? I like your Biblical reference, as some of those characters use the same book to justify the bizarre behavior, you are fighting fire with fire. Good luck, if you can effect a change, you have truly accomplished something. Vic

Shane_TX
Posts: 603
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 5:44 pm
Location: Upper TX Coast

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Shane_TX » August 2nd, 2012, 8:32 pm

Who doesn't like your videos? If anyone has a problem with Orry please say what it is so we can get past it.
I was wondering the same thing. I remember a Gyalopion video and enjoyed it.

On the issue of WDB roundups though, I'm not interested in the fight. I don't like them, at all, but the fight is mostly emotional. To that extent I do appreciate the logic of letting hunter-gatherers enjoy their pursuit of wild game in a mostly reasonable fashion.......I don't get blasted for spraying lead into the environment after a dove hunt, and I don't get blasted for having to kill a wounded bird.

Shane

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 2nd, 2012, 9:08 pm

Bgorum: Thank you so much brother. I really appreciate you sharing and the nice words.

Vic: Thank you for the suggestions. Applying logic to the people doing this is practically impossible, as they are very much so set in their ways. We are trying to put more pressure on the agencies not enforcing the laws they swore to uphold. The more light that is shed on the cruelty that occurs at these roundups, the more people will notice. People can change things if there is enough of them fighting for the same cause. That is all we are trying to do. All we need is for someone with the power or connections to see this video and have it strike at their heart. That, I believe, can change these events. In my opinion, the roundups will change and it is just a matter of time. People are compassionate, even with snakes, if they see what they go through at these roundups. Sadly I know no one in the press to help make this sing, but we will meet. Thanks for the good wishes.

Shane: I am sorry you are not interested. I am a huge duck hunter and deer hunter, but nothing these men do is considered hunting to me. These men are in it for the money and small town fame. I hunt to eat and help support wildlife conservation (stamps, donations to wetland organizations). There is no sportsmanship in what they do. No dignity, nor honor in starving an animal to death and parading around with it in their hands trying to make people believe they are badasses. I cannot stand by and watch my favorite animal be hunted to the point of possibly becoming an endangered species. Thanks for your compliments on the videos brother, I really appreciate it.

User avatar
DracoRJC
Posts: 335
Joined: May 5th, 2011, 2:15 pm
Location: The beautiful Texas Hill Country

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by DracoRJC » August 2nd, 2012, 10:07 pm

Hey Orry, this is Ryan Collister from facebook - just letting you know I shared your video on my page! Again, great work, and I apologize for those who have given you grief about your documentaries. Some people can't stand the thought of laying a finger (literally or metaphorically) on a snake, as if it will explode on contact or something :lol:

As for the roundups, if you want to eliminate the support for these events, I think more attention should be focused on keeping the Sweetwater people out of Austin. I'm sure you already know that the jaycees bring in live WDBs to the capitol building and parade them around under the same "educational" disguise they always do. Unfortunately, instead of doing it in a redneck area that already hates snakes, they are doing it in a city known for its progressiveness and openmindedness, and right at the heart of where the legislation takes place. My uncle is a TX house representative, and I was very disheartened when he said he thought the events at the capitol were "really cool". Hopefully while I'm in town next weekend I can convince him otherwise!

Verhoodled
Posts: 307
Joined: August 7th, 2010, 2:48 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Verhoodled » August 2nd, 2012, 10:52 pm

Hey Orry,
In concert with previous posters here, I implore you to keep up the great work! And please don't be a stranger! Your contributions are valued.

Ignore the loud and lazy minority. Let the bitter be forever bitter; it's what they do best. They never step up and contribute anything worthwhile anyways.

Your videos are intelligently presented and much appreciated. Enough so that I make a point to share them with my nieces and nephews and others. Your videos give them a chance to learn about species and conservation issues they otherwise wouldn't. You educate and do it well, and without the flash, fluff and hyperbole that often detracts from the message.

Again, keep up the great work and don't stop.

Monty

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 3rd, 2012, 7:35 am

Ryan: keep up the good work and I appreciate the nice words.

Monty: Thank you so much sir for sharing my videos. That really means alot to me. I feel kids get more enjoyment out of the videos anyways because they are just watching for the animal, no judgments being made while watching. Please share this one the same as this video is very close to my heart. Thanks again brother

RobK

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by RobK » August 3rd, 2012, 9:26 am

Orry -

I think your point in the video comes across loud and clear. I recently took a few players and parents from my basketball team out for a night of road cruising. We came across at least 6+ Prairie Rattlesnakes of various sizes and attitudes. It was a great teaching opportunity to do exactly what you mentioned in your video; respect the snakes, but try not to have unwarranted fears.

I suspect your video is aimed at folks who probably don't encounter rattlesnakes very often. The only tweak I'd make is the rattlesnake striking at the beginning of your vid. I realize that is your intro, but in a video like this, it might be viewed as a bit of an oxymoron.

The only other thought (which isn't necessarily a sticking point) is the bible passage reference about "caring for animals". Imo, the bible doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to "caring for animals", which is a discussion for another day. Not trying to get this topic off on a tangent, just commenting on what I saw in the video.

Your intentions seem sincere and passionate. Best of luck!

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 3rd, 2012, 9:37 am

Thank you RobK for your insight. I will take them into consideration. From my perspective, the striking rattlesnake is a perfect example of a snake on the defensive, not the offensive. in no way, shape, or form is the rattlesnake moving towards the camera. The snake is simply defending itself against an oncoming potential threat. I welcome anyone questioning the oxymoron at the beginning as a way to further my claim in the video.

As far as the Bible passage usage, I personally am a Christian and put God in everything I do. I believe the Jaycees at these roundups also claim to be Christians as well or at least men of faith. I think using a passages from a book they base their life around as a tool to make them see the error of their ways is powerful. Just my opinion. I figured more people would have a problem with the Bible verse being used, but so far, I have received nothing but positive comments about it. Thanks for the criticism though and if the video does not bother you too much, please share it to help raise awareness.

Orry

RobK

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by RobK » August 3rd, 2012, 10:06 am

OrryMartinTX wrote: As far as the Bible passage usage, I personally am a Christian and put God in everything I do. I believe the Jaycees at these roundups also claim to be Christians as well or at least men of faith. I think using a passages from a book they base their life around as a tool to make them see the error of their ways is powerful. Just my opinion.
I figured that's why you might be doing it. Smart move. :thumb: I'll come down to TX sometime to herp with you and we'll get into that whole bible/animal thing over some coffee. ;)

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 3rd, 2012, 10:09 am

I don't drink coffee, but I can kill a bottle of water :thumb:

Sean
Posts: 182
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 2:02 pm

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Sean » August 5th, 2012, 12:46 pm

...

stlouisdude
Posts: 412
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:30 pm
Location: St Louis, MO / Hartford, CT

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by stlouisdude » August 5th, 2012, 1:21 pm

I thought it was a good video. The presenter wasn't afraid to show his passion for the subject and that in itself is very motivating. I'm not sure I'd care to repeat his footwork, lol, but as people are terribly afraid of stepping on snakes (including many herpers), I think the demonstrations are worthwhile as it may lessen such anxiety to a level more in line with the actual threat. In regards to the roundups, I am opposed to the most brutal practices on the grounds of morality regardless of any population effects. I believe we must create a new narrative where the people who are heroic are those who seek solutions to protect our heritage for future generations to enjoy and stand up to unethical behavior. We are fortunate that our country has a long history of taking on behavior that does not match our beliefs. Certainly this individual is well suited to fill that iconic role and strikes me as the sort of guy who might have a prayer of getting through to people sitting on the fence regarding the subject.

Gabrial
Posts: 47
Joined: May 10th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Gabrial » August 5th, 2012, 1:42 pm

I don't post here much, but I will to say; I have always enjoyed your videos, and have actually recently been curious as to why you hadn't posted a video on here in a while. Guess I got my answer. I suggest you ignore those people who are sending those messages, and keep posting videos, cause I think the majority of people enjoy them.

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 5th, 2012, 1:48 pm

Sean: thank you so much for watching the video and sharing your thoughts. In reference to the kingsnake videos, those were filmed in an Animal Behavior class I took in college where I was studying atrox defensive behaviors when confronted by a kingsnake. I also looked at defensive tactics used while being constricted or bitten. I thought the videos were great additions to the documentaries because many people wonder how exactly that predator prey interaction occurs. I am sorry if that offends you, but those films have educated several of my students and helps to draw their attention into the films. I have had several people feel the same way about that footage though. They don't mind seeing a mouse eaten, but snakes eating snakes gets to them.

Stlouisdude: thank you. Those are some of the kindest words anyone has said. Please share the video if you have a chance.

Sean
Posts: 182
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 2:02 pm

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Sean » August 5th, 2012, 1:55 pm

...

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 5th, 2012, 2:34 pm

I apologize, I was mixed up. I just don't understand how a kingsnake eating a rattlesnake goes against rattlesnake conservation. I was showing what occurs in nature, but I can see how some may question the videos because of a snake dying. Thanks for bringing the issue to my attention

User avatar
Dalton Lund
Posts: 176
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 10:33 am
Location: Hamblen County, TN

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Dalton Lund » August 5th, 2012, 3:06 pm

I will be sharing your video as well Orry, great work. You're an great educator and the herp community appreciates you :thumb:

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 5th, 2012, 3:20 pm

Thank you very much Dalton. I appreciate you sharing the videos and the kind words brother. You rock!

User avatar
M.J.FRANETOVICH
Posts: 538
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Location: Deadhorse/California

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » August 5th, 2012, 9:14 pm

I am extremely impressed with R.A.R.R. I would be happy to contribute in any way I can i'm located in SoCal if there is a place or person that can receive donations of cash or materials I would be happy to make a contribution contact info is all thats needed ....... thank you to the founders....



MJ :beer:

RAK
Posts: 17
Joined: June 18th, 2010, 11:17 am
Location: Del Rio

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by RAK » August 6th, 2012, 6:19 am

I have met Orry a total of two times(and for minutes each along the road), so these comments are based of his online persona and the reason he rubs people the wrong way sometimes. I am a spiritual person, but not a christian, and Orry can come off as over the top religious. I know I have said "Thank God" a couple times, after searching long and hard, when I have found a target species. To seriously, repeatedly, and publicly ask people to pray for you when you are going to look for a snake is prayer for self gratification, and does not sit well with me or some others. If it takes 1 minute to pray for Orry to find a pygmy, then that one minute could be better spent praying for a child that just lost their parent. Stupid reason? Most likely, but spiritual/religious beliefs can be stupid like that. Besides religion is polarizing and many people will shut out the message because of it's abundance in his videos. He says he brings it into everything he does, and that is great for him but it will narrow the audience a bit, and create outspoken opponents.

A lot of animosity comes from one video in particular where he shows, in many peoples opinion, very poor handling skills of a hot snake. I bet most people have done things just as reckless, but not posted them of youtube. When you do that you open yourself to comment. Many people felt Orry took a "know it all" stance including to people that have been herping probably as long as Orry has been out of diapers. We all know herpers do not like newcomers (relatively speaking) coming in and acting like a know it all. To me ehh, I love a good snake bite video.

Anyway, I am sure people have other problems with Orry just like people have problems with us all. He is a very outspoken and becoming a public face, so he is going to have his criticism. Just part of the game. Again I have nothing against Orry personally, but his videos are something that I chose not to watch.

PS. I fall in line with Shane on the thought of the round-ups. I do not like them, but I do not believe they should be outlawed. Problem is now there is little to no regulation. Instead of trying to outlaw them, make it harder. Make dens off limits, make gassing illegal, reduce the impact on population this way. See if it remains popular and profitable.

User avatar
AtroxKR
Posts: 142
Joined: May 14th, 2012, 10:23 am
Location: Leander, TX
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by AtroxKR » August 6th, 2012, 7:10 am

RAK wrote:PS. I fall in line with Shane on the thought of the round-ups. I do not like them, but I do not believe they should be outlawed. Problem is now there is little to no regulation. Instead of trying to outlaw them, make it harder. Make dens off limits, make gassing illegal, reduce the impact on population this way. See if it remains popular and profitable.
The goal isn't to outlaw them, but to put a stop to the cruelty that is displayed, and completely ignored by authorities.

There are several Roundups here in TX that are strictly educational, and do not sew the animals mouth shut, decapitate them, etc.

I don't think anyone wants to completely outlaw the event, because it can be a great educational tool in showing non-herp people the benefits and beauty of the rattlesnakes. All we want is to change the way the animals are handled, collected, and viewed as an unimportant object by the people who hold these roundups, especially Sweetwater, Apache, Waurika, etc.

I personally believe the efforts of the RRAR group are 100% what we need, and I help them on a daily basis, because NO animal should have it's mouth sewn shut just so some ignorant piece of redneck trash can take a picture, and act like he's some big shot. Not cool. I don't care if it's a hermit crab, snail, cricket, you don't sew somethings mouth shut. It is illegal, immoral, and wrong.

I live in the dead center of so many roundups, and the way the snakes are handled infuriates me. They are dropped from 6ft up onto concrete, pinned so excessively, that their heads permanently swell up, mocked after their heads are ripped off by dull blades, and used as part of ridiculous acts (namely Jackie Bibby and his BS with the bath tub, sleeping bag, dangling from his mouth, etc.)

The simple fact that if just ONE person in ANY of these round up cities took a dog, cat, or hell even a squirrel, and sewed their mouth shut and would immediately be locked up for animal cruelty, yet every year hundreds of people can get away with doing it to MORE than one snake?

Someone else said it was more of an emotional fight...I 100% disagree. It is an ethical, moral fight. These animals can't speak for themselves, and unless the herp community that chooses to ignore the fact gets off their high horse and helps, cruelty will continue, and rattlesnakes will continue to decline. It's sad to me that mammals can gain so much support, even false support from groups like PETA and HSUS, but reptiles linger in the balance of a group of "Dedicated" people who are mostly unwilling to help. RRAR has 2,000+ Members. Only a handful of us do anything. Reptile Expos...there are so many people. Even on this forum, there is a large population. But who does anything? Only a few I have seen so far support it, and ONE has asked about donating.

Im sure you are all really great people, and I would love to know you all personally, but to act like whats happening isn't a serious issue, is ignorant.

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 6th, 2012, 3:03 pm

MJ: Thank you so much for the support. Please visit this site if you would like to donate.

http://reptileapartment.com/rise-agains ... -roundups/

RAK: Wow! You had alot to say about me. I do not see how I am over the top religious for thanking God for snakes and praying for snakes to help me educate others, but to each their own. I really do not want to address anything more with you and if you simply delete me from your facebook friends, that should rectify a majority of your problems with me. Please allow me to apologize too about my handling techniques. I have never been bitten nor do I plan on being bitten. I am very sorry one of my videos offended you. I have never hurt a snake nor seen a snake suffer during my handling either. Again, I apologize. God Bless

User avatar
Daryl Eby
Posts: 963
Joined: June 27th, 2010, 12:27 pm
Location: Terlingua / Marfa, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Daryl Eby » August 6th, 2012, 6:15 pm

Very good video and excellent cause. Lots of folks have worked really hard to establish RARR and position it to hopefully make a difference. I'm sure I could fill this post with criticisms and complaints about some of the people involved, graphics used, videos published, website design, etc. HOWEVER, what I have in common with RARR far outweighs any minor differences I may have. So, until I'm ready to step up the plate to design my ideal anti round up organization (hint: never gonna happen), or until I see another group that is doing better for this cause (hint: haven't seen anything close), I'll throw my support behind RARR.

I exchanged some FB messages and ideas with them earlier today and was impressed enough to kick in a cash donation. Not much, but I'm confident they will put it to good use. I'd encourage others to consider doing the same. Don't let our minor differences get in the way of our major goals.

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 6th, 2012, 6:25 pm

From what I've heard, they are putting your donations to good use. Thank you so much for the support! We really appreciate it and I'm sure the snakes do as well.

VICtort
Posts: 688
Joined: July 2nd, 2010, 5:48 pm
Location: AZ.

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by VICtort » August 6th, 2012, 6:30 pm

Dhttp://www.arav.org/news-events/snapperfest-2012-canceled/

Dear Orry and others interested in this issue,

check this out, a success in my mind. I am adamantly against round-ups for so many reason in addition to cruelty, seeing no redeeming features but I am realistic enough to know local fame and $ are driving it, and it is especially tough to take something of "value" away and not replace it... This turtle affair is about as similar as any other issue I can think of, where decades long "tradition" of rationalized animal cruelty was tolerated. Maybe if veterinarian organization came out against the round-ups some folks would listen? it is easy for the organizers to just dismiss anti roundup folks as "wingnuts", PETA lovin' kooks etc., but vets tend to be highly respected. Of course Vets walk a fine line, and the term "cruelty" is poorly defined, like Porn, you know it when you see it but it is hard to define. Some folks regard an ear tag in a calves ear cruel, or dehorning a goat, castration, etc. I have heard folks complain about bass tournaments, etc., so this issue can be complicated and divisive. You did a great job of documenting that sewing of the lips stuff, which strengthens your case. Good luck as you challenge this Goliath, and be careful, folks can get real ornery when they see the loss of potential income...Vic

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 6th, 2012, 7:08 pm

Thanks for posting Vic. Ending snapperfest was a huge triumph for those who oppose animal cruelty, and you hit the nail on the head when you said its all about money. We are currently working on getting celebrities involved, scientists, and maybe even vets. We will see but either way, the roundups will change. I am very confident in that.

VICtort
Posts: 688
Joined: July 2nd, 2010, 5:48 pm
Location: AZ.

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by VICtort » August 6th, 2012, 7:25 pm

http://www.arav.org/news-events/snapper ... -canceled/

Hopefully this link will work, I see I misprinted a D previously. Look for the reference to snapperfest on the ARAV home website...and they mention rattlesnake round ups as a future goal. Those round ups are dysfunctional in my mind, hard to believe they exist under the guise of education...

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 8th, 2012, 9:38 am

Indigo blue, I am not asking for your support in the kingsnake feeding. That was simply a feeding to observe animal behavior in a controlled environment. Once again, I am sorry if this offends you. In my personal opinion, there is a huge difference between predator/prey interaction and the cruelty that goes on at roundups. I do not even see how the two compare. You have your mind made up though and I am sorry you will not support the diamondbacks because this is not about me, it is about them.

User avatar
Dalton Lund
Posts: 176
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 10:33 am
Location: Hamblen County, TN

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Dalton Lund » August 8th, 2012, 9:43 am

The kingsnake eats western diamondbacks in the wild. Is feeding a mouse to a captive ball python wrong? He was just displaying the natural interaction between the two snakes.

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 8th, 2012, 9:53 am

Thank you so much Dalton! I was beginning to wonder if people here thought it was okay to feed snakes or that snakes are bad for their method of prey immobilization. You would be amazed at how many children love seeing the feeding habits of snakes and I do not see that as a bad thing. Snakes are cool and I think kings are awesome because to their tenacity while feeding and their ability to resist snake venom. I guess I am a select few for wanting to show that to my students. I like speaking about info in my docs but showing someone how the interaction goes down is far more powerful and interactive.

User avatar
AtroxKR
Posts: 142
Joined: May 14th, 2012, 10:23 am
Location: Leander, TX
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by AtroxKR » August 8th, 2012, 10:11 am

I'm going to have to side with Orry on this one, as well. Feeding an atrox to a kingsnake is nothing like TEARING it's head off with a dull blade, sewing its mouth shut, ripping its fangs out, etc.

It's part of the education process, and I think it is 100% needed. Uneducated people, typically, assume any snake is a bad snake, and kill it. If people KNOW what a kingsnake does and looks like, they are less likely to kill it because of its natural roll to control the population of more dangerous snakes. It demonstrates natural behaviors and rolls in nature.

Just the same, if I was educating someone on the Patchnose snake for example, I would probably feed it an Anole, or something similar. Likewise with a coral and a ground snake, rough earth, skink, etc.

When you look at doing something natural as cruel, THEN the fight becomes emotional, rather than ethical. I love snakes, and I would personally give my life to protect them if in some twisted way it became needed. Does that mean it isn't ok for the kingsnake to be denied its natural meal choice? No. It doesn't matter if Orry intentionally fed the atrox to the king, or the king found the atrox -- it's nature. Just like I tell my entire rodent loving family when feeding time comes around. Food chain = science. Roundups = Cruelty. The two can in no logical way be compared.

Honestly, I don't think any of us in support of Round ups would mind the snake being offered as a meal item, just so it was done so in a more humane manner. You are missing the point behind the fight. It isn't about the killing, but the WAY they do it, and the cruelty involved with the mouth sewing, which leads them to a slow, painful death. Sure, a kingsnake constricting is similar, but it is natural. Using a rattlesnake in terms of "Hey look, I took a picture with a rattlesnake!" just to look macho, or whatever they think they are, and being cruel to do so, is not. If they want to hunt and eat rattlesnakes, fine. Regulate it, outlaw gassing of dens, set bag limits (like any other game animal) and slaughter them in a humane way, not with children pulling their skin off, and putting bloody handprints on the wall like they achieved something.

No matter where you take your arguement, it will be logically invalid. Nature and human beings, who are supposed to be the smarter species on this planet treating a "lesser" life form like this, are far opposite on the spectrum.

Orry didn't kill the rattler, the kingsnake did. Just for clarification.

User avatar
AtroxKR
Posts: 142
Joined: May 14th, 2012, 10:23 am
Location: Leander, TX
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by AtroxKR » August 8th, 2012, 10:39 am

No, I don't believe anyone with a kingsnake should go out and collect snakes for feeding. If they choose to breed specific species for that purpose, fine. But by natural, I do include instinct. Just because it was in a bath tub, doesn't make it really any different. It was just in a controlled environment, for educational purpose.

Which brings out my main point. Orry's intention was education, where Roundup intention is entertainment. As for head chopping, yes...it is more humane, however alot of times the blade is dull, and results in multiple strikes/blade dragging on the flesh, while the snake remains alive. No, skinning a dead snake and putting handprints on the wall isn't cruelty. I never said it was. What it DOES do, is send the wrong message about how these, or any, animal should be treated. I'm not out to stop that, because that is a matter of opinion. I personally won't mount any deer heads from a hunt, because I see these kinds of "trophies" as arrogant, and redundant.

One snake fed to another in an educational video, vs THOUSANDS for entertaining the uneducated masses are far different from one another. Our fight against the cruelty mostly extends to the way they are sewn, over-pinned, and de-fanged, as well as tosses around like inanimate objects. Our fight against the way they are handled after death, is purely about respect for the animal.

All we want is the roundups to be EDUCATIONAL rather than destructive, cruel, and disrespectful. There are some that fit this description, but the ones we are opposing, are simply for pleasures of those too blind to understand.

I don't believe I am missing your point, because I do see and understand all angles of this arguement, and a lot of things are also a matter of opinion, but the main focuses are a matter of fact, and 100% cruel. I think the problem here is, I am not properly relaying the message of the fight against roundups, because I am only one person with one perspective on the issue. I can only do so much. But, I do respect your opinions, and I do agree with you in some instances.

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 8th, 2012, 3:37 pm

Indigo blue, I am terribly sorry you feel that way. Thanks for checking out the video anyway. Other people have already jumped on board and are not detered by educational videos. We appreciate their support and helping to stop animal cruelty.

User avatar
Herpin_Time
Posts: 102
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 2:34 pm
Location: PA
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Herpin_Time » August 8th, 2012, 3:58 pm

Great video Orry

User avatar
OrryMartinTX
Posts: 57
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 3:06 pm
Location: Montgomery County, Texas
Contact:

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by OrryMartinTX » August 8th, 2012, 4:15 pm

Thank you very much Jd and Justin! Y'all have always been awesome supporters of reptiles and even better friends!

VICtort
Posts: 688
Joined: July 2nd, 2010, 5:48 pm
Location: AZ.

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by VICtort » August 8th, 2012, 5:54 pm

It's pretty ucommon for me to have the extreme view...but I simply see no redeeming value to these roundups. And for some to say Orry's educational venue is ok, but the entertainment is not, please remember the round-up folks claim what they do is educational...you can't both be right. These contests are sort of kin to a gladitorial event, with starved Christians fed to overwhelming powerful lions, there is little sport or ehtics involved. A guy I know who pariticipates tells me cheating is rampant, in fact the standard, as it is obvious that snakes are cached in cisterns and tanks and often dehydrated by the time the round up date rolls around. One can often see these skinny and dehydrated specimens. AtroxKR, are you suggesting new regulations and that these can be manged? I have no confidence. It is naiive, given the mimimal regulations i.e cruelty laws are not even mimimally enforced now, and by the way, it is a tough case to win in court, hence the reluctance of enforcement staff/D.A.'s to enforce it. So why would new and more restrictive laws be enforceable? How could you possibly prevent those participants from raiding denning/rookery sites (its tough enough with timbers, and they are being "loved" to excess)? How could you possibly stop the use of gas or other fumigants, and that is already prohibited, isn't it? These laws and rules are unenforceable, and it is a carnival side show, not a sporting endeavor. Bass tournaments take a dim view on flagrant cheating , i.e stockpiling fish etc. to defraud others at the weigh in. Yet that is the standard in these events, is it not? I see no way to manage these events, and it is not the same as many other sport game/fish harvests, since it is driven by commercial excess(and most commercial fisheries are in decline by the way). I would love to replace something if we collectively take it away...it's all about the $ and perhaps a few days of small town prestige.

Orry, you are making a good step forward in educating those who are open to being educated on this barbarous event and I applaud you for it. However, I woud like to see round-ups eliminated, simply indefensible, the equivalent of dog fighting, kangaroo vs. man boxing, cock fighting and other entertainments generally frowned upon here and in England.

By the way, I am an avid angler, diver and hunter, reptile breeder and so I have not come to these conclusions from a radical animal rights perspective. These round-ups are not educational in any way that can't be easily duplicated, they are unsporting, they are destructive to wildlife, etc. etc., how did they ever become so culturally established? Go have fun at a rodeo I say...

Enough, we see things differently and so do the round up folks...I say eliminate it, endure the wrath, and maybe in a few years they will move on to something less offensive and maybe equally entertaining? The agencies that ate shirking their collective duty need to be forced to do some effective enforcement. How can we justify this if even one tortoise or indigo snake is damaged by gasoline, etc., threatened species and all?

User avatar
Felixx68
Posts: 31
Joined: August 16th, 2011, 4:48 pm
Location: Waco, TX
Contact:

Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Felixx68 » August 29th, 2012, 6:23 pm

Mad props here! And FB posted.

Philipp413
Posts: 8
Joined: July 16th, 2012, 6:43 pm
Location: Orange County, California

Re: Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups

Post by Philipp413 » August 29th, 2012, 8:48 pm

Good video...keep it up! And very cool (and unexpected) to see a fellow Christian herper!

Post Reply