So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

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So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Dr. Dark » September 14th, 2013, 7:43 am


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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by hellihooks » September 14th, 2013, 8:04 am

Those Iranian Monitors were featured on one of the Wild Recon episodes... guess they came home with him. I guess some people can resist anything... except temptation... :roll: what a shame.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by WSTREPS » September 14th, 2013, 12:40 pm

Wow the Feds got another one. Way to go. Between this and the Lamar bust I'd have to say these guys are really kicking ass.

These endangered (appendix 1) Iranian desert monitor lizards are about as common as dust
and are killed by the thousands every year for food, skins, people think their venomous (I' m sure Bryan Fry does but he thinks everything is venomous) etc. God forbid or I should say cites forbid you take one and sell it to a collector. I don't blame Schultz for wanting to sell them. They bite. I understand that sometimes there is more to the story . I also understand that sometimes there is only more of the same crap to the story. Often the goal Of cough, enforcement agencies is to make a series of inconsequential nonsense seem like a big deal. It's all part of the game they play trying to justify the incredible amounts of time and money they waste chasing people who honestly don't need to be chased.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Ross Padilla » September 14th, 2013, 2:40 pm

Here's more of the story.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... 3616.story

Looks like he won't have a show ever again. That's my guess.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by lateralis » September 14th, 2013, 2:49 pm

Last time I checked the title "Herpetologist" required a college degree but maybe Chuck has a union card thru the actors guild? :lol:

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by venomdoc » September 14th, 2013, 6:07 pm

Two alternative scenarios:

- The actual crime he was arrested for was fairly trivial, simply selling endangered species across state lines without a permit, but animals that were captive bred so were in themselves legal. If they were indeed captive bred, then he was just so arrogant that he could not bother doing the filing of the paperwork. However, if this was the case, then he would have been easily able to sort the paperwork so this is illogical.
- Opportunity and track record would certainly suggest that he smuggled them in. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... 3616.story

Regardless, fish and game was well aware at this time about many things he was doing (both in the US and in other countries such as Australia or Sri Lanka that want his head on a pike) that were true crimes but were not able to get him on them. So they got him on what they could. Much like how Al Capone was finally taken down for the humble crime of tax evasion!

For those of us who were screwed over by him, schadenfreude is a beautiful feeling :)

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by justinm » September 15th, 2013, 6:27 am

If anything, the creeps (like Myke Clarkson) here that took up with him and backed him as a herping God don't come around this site anymore. I saw right through his BS and couldn't be happier to have seem him move on. Hopefully he gets some long hard time. Get a job sir instead of exploiting wildlife for an easy dime.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Ross Padilla » September 15th, 2013, 1:30 pm

I heard rumors several years ago that he was selling rattlesnakes and sending them out of the country. I can't even remember who told me this at this point, but I was skeptical about it then. Now.........

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Daryl Eby » September 15th, 2013, 4:10 pm

I'm seeing lots of speculation that he caught this lizards while filming "Wild Recon". I'd really like to hear some confirmation on that.

If these were just captive bred animals from legal stock, then this violation is just a matter of stupidity and irresponsibility.

If these were indeed wild caught, smuggled in illegally, and sold illegally ... well, that's seriously despicable. Even worse when you consider that doing so reflects very badly on the Discover Channel (can their reputation get worse?) and anyone that worked with him as part of that show.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Shane_TX » September 15th, 2013, 5:29 pm

So does this mean that we can't get the herp nation snake master myke show anymore......or the gloves of power. I'm heartbroken.

Shane

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by dery » September 15th, 2013, 6:37 pm

Never got into his show. What acriphobe would be an active skydiver?? I have to admit my interest in TV was starting to die when his show first aired, about a year later was the last time I watched tv in my house. I only like the pre-2009 tv shows.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Antonsrkn » September 15th, 2013, 7:55 pm

Its too bad, I never watched the show as I haven't had cable in a few years but it was one of those that I did want to check out at some point. I don't know enough about the situation to pass judgement, but I really do hope those weren't wild caught monitors.
Regardless, fish and game was well aware at this time about many things he was doing (both in the US and in other countries such as Australia or Sri Lanka that want his head on a pike) that were true crimes but were not able to get him on them.
I have to admit this has gotten me curious, care to shed some additional light on the matter?
Off topic but...
What acriphobe would be an active skydiver??
I don't know if Schulz said he was an acriphobe or something on his show, but I completely understand why an acriphobe would be a skydiver. The only serious fear I have is heights and something about having that fear causes me to push myself and put myself in situations where I have to deal with it. I have gone skydiving, bungie jumping, rock climbing, etc... in order to deal with it, gotta say its an adrenaline rush like no other, unfortunately im my case atleast doesnt seem to do anything for my fear of heights.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by venomdoc » September 15th, 2013, 8:08 pm

In Australia he did things like using dart rifles on kangaroos, crash tackling emus to take blood samples, etc. that require wildlife permits that would only be given with institutional animal ethics approval. Neither of which he had. Parks and Wildlife here were livid when they found out what he got up to. These types of violations have the potential to carry jail terms or substantial fines or both.

In Sri Lanka he caused so many problems, including stating on camera they were taking genetic material out of the country, that the antivenom program got shutdown for over a year through no fault of the good people doing the actual work but entirely due to the dodginess of Schultz. As this antivenom will be the only one for the island, any delay means more deaths. Since his actions directly caused major disruptions of the antivenom program, this means he was directly responsible for the delay of the antivenom and thus directly responsible for deaths.

These are but two examples. Everywhere he went, he left a trail of destruction and wildlife violations. WIth the exception of the sea snake samples that I collected on one of my research expeditions that he tagged along on, none of the other activities had any sort of sanction and none of the samples were used. Animals were interfered with without permits or animal ethics approval purely to get him the hero shot and then any blood samples, venom etc. were just thrown away as soon as the cameras stopped. His show is an exhibition of unethical behaviour and everything that can be wrong with wildlife filming. His Venom In Vegas stunt of living in a box full of snakes (most of which were non-venomous such as vicious corn snakes) was animal abuse because it was held in the cold season so many of the snakes died due to exposure.

Wild-Con was cancelled not only for having the lowest ratings ever for an Animal Planet show (you know you have a problem when even herpers won't watch you) but because the execs woke up one day to a slew of formal complaints from the governments of Australia and Sri Lanka as well as irate enquiries from other govs. The irony of his post-Wild-Con reincarnation as a 'wildlife warrior' for National Geographic (Animal Intervention show) of him being filmed helping to seize peoples collections was that he was illegally maintaining a sizeable collection of cobras and gaboon vipers in Los Angeles!

At the end of the day, Donald Schultz was a con-man who was sociopathically in it for himself rather than reveling in the glory of the natural world.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Antonsrkn » September 15th, 2013, 9:26 pm

Whoa, I hadn't heard about any of this, its some pretty shocking stuff, glad some of his actions have caught up with him then. Incredibly irresponsible and selfish is the nicest thing I can say about most of the examples you mentioned.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by azatrox » September 16th, 2013, 5:04 am

Right or wrong, this is why I tend to shy away from most of the TV personality types that seem to permeate the herping culture...

Aside from the fact that I'd rather be out herping than sitting in front of a TV watching someone else herping, I just can't seem to get down with all the ego.

-Kris

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by justinm » September 16th, 2013, 5:53 am

Brian,

I knew I knew it. His blood samples looked and felt like a stunt. I'm sorry to hear about the antivenom issues he was related to. Hopefully Scott Waters has sense to distance himself from this crew that only makes legitimate field biologists look like stunt men and idiots. The Vegas thing turned my stomach when I heard about it, sadly through this site. There's just too many dirt bags pulling stunts for me to stomach on TV and he might have been the worst.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by WSTREPS » September 16th, 2013, 6:28 am

Schultz might not have been popular with some (It's likely that there's a good bit of jealousy involved )
but so far the only thing that's come out is he didn't jump through a bunch of paperwork hoops. Having dealt with the system quite a bit I know how much BS goes on with the people who hand out the permits and Enforcement agencies. There is more then enough unethical behavior (and flat out stupidity) on the side of the pencil pushers to go around.

In the case of Schultz current issue this guy was busted for selling an endangered species. There is no chance that these were captive bred animals. That does not mean he smuggled them into the States. He very well could have gotten them here from another collector. There are a handful floating around in private collections. None have paperwork . If Schultz did sneak these animals in himself. So what. They are common harmless lizards.With all that's going to the Government is going to tie up the legal system with this nonsense. It's a complete F'n joke.

For some reason people seem to think that getting cites paperwork or various other wildlife permits is always a simple matter of filling out a few forms. That is not how it works. In the case of importing appendix 1 animals to the states you can have all your paperwork in perfect order follow all the rules and Usfw still might reject it on the grounds of whatever the person sitting behind the desk (more often than not a person who's lacking background and genuine qualification) feels like saying.

I would love to know who decided and how it was determined that this VERY common animal (Iranian desert monitor) was an endangered species! Deserving of the highest level of protection. For lack of a better word the rules are full of this type of ridiculous categorization. I could go into detail about the process that Cites is suppose to go thru when determining the status of species and how this sets the guidelines for the sustainable trade in the species. Right to the point. The cites organization does not follow the guidelines they set for themselves.

Ernie Eison

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Mike VanValen » September 16th, 2013, 9:49 am

Unreal. I talked to the guy a couple of times (through email I believe) about possibly going to Africa. I'm glad I didn't.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by justinm » September 16th, 2013, 9:53 am

Mike VanValen wrote:Unreal. I talked to the guy a couple of times (through email I believe) about possibly going to Africa. I'm glad I didn't.
Oh the trip that Myke Clarkson wanted everyone to book so that it would pay for his trip, and offer him a chance to get footage that he planned to sell to Discovery? Yeah that trip was like triple the cost of most I looked into, and I'm sure all the permission to get to places most people can't get to was legit, right? I'm so happy that these guys have been exposed.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Mike VanValen » September 16th, 2013, 9:56 am

Yup, that was the one.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by MontyNajar » September 16th, 2013, 10:42 am

Not to open a whole new political discussion, but the problem is when two different agendas collide...like for example when a preacher makes more than $1M a year. You kinda can't pursue both "god's work" and making fat dime at the same time.

So Donald, are you making awesome, exciting TV with lots of near death experiences, accessing areas SO REMOTE that you have to skydive in (wait - how did the crew get there, wait - how did you get home)?? Or are you doing research?

I wish he was more careful not to trample on the local people he visited (once saw them smash down a wall in some village - oops!! - and then move on) and I wish he were more honest about what he was doing. It would be OK to just thrill-ride-go and do kickass stuff. Add in a hot chick and a power drink sponsor, and I'm good. Make it a reptile life-list show. Make it a reptile scavenger hunt show. Seems to me that Animal Planet has dropped any pretense of environmentalism or scientific basis anyway. Its animal-based entertainment.

Anyway, I am very jealous of the stuff he was doing. But I was always suspicious of how and why. Heroes are hard to come by.

I MISS STEVE IRWIN!!!

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by azatrox » September 16th, 2013, 10:53 am

Schultz might not have been popular with some (It's likely that there's a good bit of jealousy involved )
but so far the only thing that's come out is he didn't jump through a bunch of paperwork hoops. Having dealt with the system quite a bit I know how much BS goes on with the people who hand out the permits and Enforcement agencies. There is more then enough unethical behavior (and flat out stupidity) on the side of the pencil pushers to go around.

In the case of Schultz current issue this guy was busted for selling an endangered species. There is no chance that these were captive bred animals. That does not mean he smuggled them into the States. He very well could have gotten them here from another collector. There are a handful floating around in private collections. None have paperwork . If Schultz did sneak these animals in himself. So what. They are common harmless lizards.With all that's going to the Government is going to tie up the legal system with this nonsense. It's a complete F'n joke.

For some reason people seem to think that getting cites paperwork or various other wildlife permits is always a simple matter of filling out a few forms. That is not how it works. In the case of importing appendix 1 animals to the states you can have all your paperwork in perfect order follow all the rules and Usfw still might reject it on the grounds of whatever the person sitting behind the desk (more often than not a person who's lacking background and genuine qualification) feels like saying.

I would love to know who decided and how it was determined that this VERY common animal (Iranian desert monitor) was an endangered species! Deserving of the highest level of protection. For lack of a better word the rules are full of this type of ridiculous categorization. I could go into detail about the process that Cites is suppose to go thru when determining the status of species and how this sets the guidelines for the sustainable trade in the species. Right to the point. The cites organization does not follow the guidelines they set for themselves.


Ernie, you’ve posted a couple times now about what a joke law enforcement is, how it’s all just unnecessary red tape, yada, yada, yada….

The fact is, he (allegedly) broke federal law…whether he smuggled them in, bought them off of someone else without necessary permits, etc. it really doesn’t matter as relates to the crux of why people are disgusted. You can lecture all of us about what a crock the laws are, how the agents are a joke, how the organization lacks legitimacy, etc…still doesn’t change the (alleged) facts.

Just because one doesn’t agree with a law or sees it as valid does not mean they get a pass to violate it when they see fit. There are quite a few wildlife related laws that I don’t personally agree with, but while those laws are on the books we (as responsible herpers) are bound to follow them. I don’t hear you talking about how he shouldn’t have violated federal law…I don’t hear you talking about how as a public figure he had a responsibility to the rest of the herp community to ensure that his conduct and behavior was beyond reproach…

What am I hearing from you? I’m hearing: “These animals are dirt common and shouldn’t be protected anyway. There are quite a few people out there that have them anyway and the paperwork necessary to acquire them legally can be a real drag to go through anyway, so it’s no big deal.”

I’d be lying if I said I was surprised.

-Kris

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by hellihooks » September 16th, 2013, 12:05 pm

venomdoc wrote:
At the end of the day, Donald Schultz was a con-man who was sociopathically in it for himself rather than reveling in the glory of the natural world.
I watched a pretty interesting show on the neural physiology of sociopaths where it was suggested that many world leaders and other powerful well-known people probably have/had a 'sociopathic' neural construction very similar to that of serial killers... and the only thing that put them on a 'good path' rather than an 'evil' one, was their upbringing.
Kinda makes sense... to be 'super-sucessfull' sometimes takes a 'win at all costs', ruthless, driven personality. Perhaps that's why they say "Nice guys finish last" :roll:

Don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to rationalize Schultz's (alleged) behavior... just trying to make sense of people's behaviors from the paradigm I have my degree in... biological psychology.

As is my wont, I'll wait for more 'facts' to come in, before passing judgement... but I have a feeling it won't be good. :| jim

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by lateralis » September 16th, 2013, 1:04 pm

I wonder what happened to the people on this site that he went into biz with...interviews with FWS an a deposition?

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Sam Bacchini » September 16th, 2013, 1:18 pm

WSTREPS wrote:There is no chance that these were captive bred animals.
I'm curious what makes you make this statement. I don't know any of the parties involved, never watched the shows or have any vested interest in any of this, but I do know that there are a few people in the U.S. that are legally working with V. griseus and have produced more than one generation of offspring. I think it is entirely plausible that he could have attempted to sell CB animals across state lines but didn't file the proper paperwork (still illegal, but a very different scenario from smuggling from the wild). I don't know any details about the case, it just seems to be an odd statement about a species that is well known to be available as CB (albeit not widely) in the U.S.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Scott Waters » September 16th, 2013, 1:32 pm

Heard about this when I was out of town this weekend. Bummer.

The next issue of Herp Nation Magazine will have a Komodo monitor article from Bryan Fry. We will put teasers here on FHF and on HerpNation.com in the coming weeks, as well as work on getting Bryan to do an interview on the Nick Mutton Show about the article!

Herper drama? No thanks. I'll pass. :)

Scott

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by venomdoc » September 16th, 2013, 2:06 pm

Scott, your avatar image would work well as a visual representation of the career of Donald Schultz! :lol:

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Scott Waters » September 16th, 2013, 2:11 pm

It is a depiction of those who I drive crazy by not playing their herper-drama games. :)

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by WSTREPS » September 17th, 2013, 6:42 am

Given the overall scenario I stand by my statement.

For the record Since 1975, the desert monitor has been listed on Appendix I of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), making all international trade in this species illegal.

Captive bred for multiple generations or not at some point the lineage can be traced back to, OMG smuggled animals. By the letter of the law this nullifies the legality of all the animals right down the line. Many European countries don't really give a crap so they let this kind of stuff slide and rightly so. Its a harmless victimless crime. And should be treated as such.

Species are being bred to the point over saturation in Europe before they ever reach the States. If they ever do. The USFW picks and chooses where and when it wants to enforce regulations.

Example: Fiji Island iguanas have been bred a million times and still the USFW Won't accept the paperwork that is issued by other country's wildlife authorities. So you have two wildlife agencies saying two opposite things with each one trying to overstep the other. And you have third organized setting the rules and regulations Using a scientific system of guidelines that is based on non existent data.

You won't hear me talking about how as a public figure he had a responsibility to the rest of the herp community to ensure that his conduct and behavior was beyond reproach. This guy has no responsibility what so ever to the herp community or that community's image. My comments are based on individual crime and punishment.
For those the law is the law preachers. Keep that in mind the next time you're doing 50mph when the speed limits suddenly drops to 35 and a cop nabs you or if you're doing 1 mph over the speed limit anywhere for that matter. Speeding kills. Lizards are not so dangerous.


Ernie Eison

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by klawnskale » September 17th, 2013, 7:33 am

WSTREPS wrote:Given the overall scenario I stand by my statement.

For the record Since 1975, the desert monitor has been listed on Appendix I of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), making all international trade in this species illegal.

Captive bred for multiple generations or not at some point the lineage can be traced back to, OMG smuggled animals. By the letter of the law this nullifies the legality of all the animals right down the line. Many European countries don't really give a crap so they let this kind of stuff slide and rightly so. Its a harmless victimless crime. And should be treated as such.

Species are being bred to the point over saturation in Europe before they ever reach the States. If they ever do. The USFW picks and chooses where and when it wants to enforce regulations.

Example: Fiji Island iguanas have been bred a million times and still the USFW Won't accept the paperwork that is issued by other country's wildlife authorities. So you have two wildlife agencies saying two opposite things with each one trying to overstep the other. And you have third organized setting the rules and regulations Using a scientific system of guidelines that is based on non existent data.

You won't hear me talking about how as a public figure he had a responsibility to the rest of the herp community to ensure that his conduct and behavior was beyond reproach. This guy has no responsibility what so ever to the herp community or that community's image. My comments are based on individual crime and punishment.
For those the law is the law preachers. Keep that in mind the next time you're doing 50mph when the speed limits suddenly drops to 35 and a cop nabs you or if you're doing 1 mph over the speed limit anywhere for that matter. Speeding kills. Lizards are not so dangerous.


Ernie Eison
Mr. 'Elson':
I can't help but suspect that you are still experiencing the aftertaste of some very bitter pills.
Does this look familiar (below). Read it and weep:
http://www.animallaw.info/cases/causfd615f2d141.htm

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by snakemastermyke » September 17th, 2013, 8:38 am

justinm wrote:If anything, the creeps (like Myke Clarkson) here that took up with him and backed him as a herping God don't come around this site anymore. I saw right through his BS and couldn't be happier to have seem him move on. Hopefully he gets some long hard time. Get a job sir instead of exploiting wildlife for an easy dime.
I do come to this site, lol, I had a show on Herp Nation Radio for awhile as well.

Just so you know I have not spoken to Schultz in several years... No longer associated with, work with, speak with him in anyway.

I will admit I can be a poor judge of character.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by snakemastermyke » September 17th, 2013, 8:41 am

justinm wrote:
Mike VanValen wrote:Unreal. I talked to the guy a couple of times (through email I believe) about possibly going to Africa. I'm glad I didn't.
Oh the trip that Myke Clarkson wanted everyone to book so that it would pay for his trip, and offer him a chance to get footage that he planned to sell to Discovery? Yeah that trip was like triple the cost of most I looked into, and I'm sure all the permission to get to places most people can't get to was legit, right? I'm so happy that these guys have been exposed.
I did in fact help Donald book a trip to South Africa... FYI I got nothing out of that what so ever, and did not attend the trip so I have no idea what went on in that trip. That was actually the last time I worked with or spoke with Donald. To my knowledge they never got any special places and in all honesty the trip was actually run by a local South African lodge to my knowledge.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by justinm » September 17th, 2013, 9:04 am

snakemastermyke wrote:
justinm wrote:
Mike VanValen wrote:Unreal. I talked to the guy a couple of times (through email I believe) about possibly going to Africa. I'm glad I didn't.
Oh the trip that Myke Clarkson wanted everyone to book so that it would pay for his trip, and offer him a chance to get footage that he planned to sell to Discovery? Yeah that trip was like triple the cost of most I looked into, and I'm sure all the permission to get to places most people can't get to was legit, right? I'm so happy that these guys have been exposed.
I did in fact help Donald book a trip to South Africa... FYI I got nothing out of that what so ever, and did not attend the trip so I have no idea what went on in that trip. That was actually the last time I worked with or spoke with Donald. To my knowledge they never got any special places and in all honesty the trip was actually run by a local South African lodge to my knowledge.
If I cared to look your post back up... You were touting the trip as getting access to places that most people can't see. It really sounded and was priced such that whoever put it together would get a free ride/trip out of the deal, simply for organizing it. That much was obvious to almost everyone.

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you. I don't think anyone on here has ever questioned my ethics, friends or character so I'm not trying to prove anything. The people that exploit wildlife really piss me off, e.g. BS tv shows with idiots harming animals. I'm glad one of them was caught, and if you had a part in any of it I hope like hell you pay the maximum price for it.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by snakemastermyke » September 17th, 2013, 9:19 am

My close friends on here have known for a long time that I no longer associate with the person in this topic... but in all honesty my close proximity to this whole issue has caused me to keep quiet.

On The Trip- At the time I was told they had some access to Kruger or something, so I posted that, and from my friends that went on the trip that did not happen. As I said, I did not get a free trip, I didn't get anything... not a trip, not one dime. I was basically used to advertise and for what ever dumb reason I did all that for free.

Not a pissing match, just trying to clarify as much as I can.

I UNDERSTAND the consequence of guilt by association... It's been nearly 3 years of not speaking with that association... and It will take many more years for that stigma to dissolve.

Those true friends who know me well can vouch for me as an individual, though my public persona
of course will take longer to recover.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by azatrox » September 17th, 2013, 9:26 am

By the letter of the law this nullifies the legality of all the animals right down the line. Many European countries don't really give a crap so they let this kind of stuff slide and rightly so. Its a harmless victimless crime. And should be treated as such.

Species are being bred to the point over saturation in Europe before they ever reach the States. If they ever do. The USFW picks and chooses where and when it wants to enforce regulations.


Ernie…I’m failing to see the relevance that Europe has to this issue…Was Mr. Schultz charged in a European court and somehow all of us missed it? Your argument that just because Europe may or may not “let(s) this kind of stuff slide” is not germane to the legal issues at hand. Europe is not charging Schultz with any violations of their laws…Therefore, Europe’s legal framework has no bearing on this issue.

As far as animal breeding in Europe, (again) this has nothing to do with the price of tea in China…Europe has NOTHING (economically, legally or otherwise) to do with the case pending against Mr. Schultz.

I’m aware of what you’re trying to do by injecting the European component into this discussion…You’re basically saying that since something is legally ok in Europe, it should be legally ok in the US as well. That makes absolutely, positively no logical sense. In some countries, it’s perfectly permissible for government agents to enter your residence (without your consent) and take whatever they want under the pretense that it is “evidence”…Such conduct is not legal here…Is it now your contention that it should be? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

For those the law is the law preachers. Keep that in mind the next time you're doing 50mph when the speed limits suddenly drops to 35 and a cop nabs you or if you're doing 1 mph over the speed limit anywhere for that matter. Speeding kills. Lizards are not so dangerous.

Again, the best support you can muster for your argument is trying to tie this issue into a completely unrelated situation to try to illustrate your points…Your arguments are invalid.

What matters here is NOT what you think or what you feel or the way you think things should be. The issue IS the way things ARE and whether or not Mr. Schultz violated federal law. Period. Case closed. End of story.

-Kris

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Ross Padilla » September 17th, 2013, 12:45 pm

snakemastermyke wrote:Just so you know I have not spoken to Schultz in several years... No longer associated with, work with, speak with him in anyway.
That's good to hear, Myke. :thumb:

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Ross Padilla » September 17th, 2013, 12:45 pm

azatrox wrote:By the letter of the law this nullifies the legality of all the animals right down the line. Many European countries don't really give a crap so they let this kind of stuff slide and rightly so. Its a harmless victimless crime. And should be treated as such.

Species are being bred to the point over saturation in Europe before they ever reach the States. If they ever do. The USFW picks and chooses where and when it wants to enforce regulations.


Ernie…I’m failing to see the relevance that Europe has to this issue…Was Mr. Schultz charged in a European court and somehow all of us missed it? Your argument that just because Europe may or may not “let(s) this kind of stuff slide” is not germane to the legal issues at hand. Europe is not charging Schultz with any violations of their laws…Therefore, Europe’s legal framework has no bearing on this issue.

As far as animal breeding in Europe, (again) this has nothing to do with the price of tea in China…Europe has NOTHING (economically, legally or otherwise) to do with the case pending against Mr. Schultz.

I’m aware of what you’re trying to do by injecting the European component into this discussion…You’re basically saying that since something is legally ok in Europe, it should be legally ok in the US as well. That makes absolutely, positively no logical sense. In some countries, it’s perfectly permissible for government agents to enter your residence (without your consent) and take whatever they want under the pretense that it is “evidence”…Such conduct is not legal here…Is it now your contention that it should be? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

For those the law is the law preachers. Keep that in mind the next time you're doing 50mph when the speed limits suddenly drops to 35 and a cop nabs you or if you're doing 1 mph over the speed limit anywhere for that matter. Speeding kills. Lizards are not so dangerous.

Again, the best support you can muster for your argument is trying to tie this issue into a completely unrelated situation to try to illustrate your points…Your arguments are invalid.

What matters here is NOT what you think or what you feel or the way you think things should be. The issue IS the way things ARE and whether or not Mr. Schultz violated federal law. Period. Case closed. End of story.

-Kris
Agreed all the way....

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by hellihooks » September 17th, 2013, 2:13 pm

snakemastermyke wrote: Those true friends who know me well can vouch for me as an individual, though my public persona
of course will take longer to recover.
I've never known Myke to be anything but straight-forward and honest in all the years I have known him. And a class act.
Schultz... not so much... he didn't get me for much... a few crotes, here and there, but after his 3rd strike...he was OUT! :roll: :lol: :lol: jim

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Fieldnotes » September 17th, 2013, 2:27 pm

I have herped with Myke and call him a friend. During one trip to Arizona, he insisted on picking up a hunting licenses to be legal, despite we were only photographing herps. May not sound like a big deal, but this was when gas was over $4-bucks a gallon so what little remaining money we had could only go one way -- to food or license. Myke’s clear choice was to buy the license, the action of a respectable person. As for Shultz, I meet him once during a NAFHA outing to Riverside County, from that experience Donald was a friendly, lively character that was obviously skilled at handing venomous serpents. It was quite interesting to watch him handle the Red Diamond Rattlers the group lawfully secured. I liked the show Wild Recon, matter fact, I’m bummed that I did not see the episode where he showed Yellow-bellied Sea Snakes in Costa Rica. I’m still searching for that episode on the net. I hope Donald rebounds froms this "speedbump in life" and gets another show.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Kelly Mc » September 17th, 2013, 8:25 pm

Personally I think a way better in every way herp show would be one starring Helli and Justin. And I'm not kidding around.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by WSTREPS » September 18th, 2013, 10:03 am

For those failing to see the relevance that Europe has to this issue. Plainly stated cite's regulations are not subject to the intreptations of individual countries. It is a joint agreement that these laws will be upheld and respected as written by all participating nations. The law is the same in Germany as it is in the US or China for that matter. It all ties together.This is not the same thing as goverment invoking a law that it is ok to invade a private residence without provocation in its own country. That law applies only to them. Cites laws apply internationally. The federal law is based on a universally agreed upon international law. Once again it ties together.

If the issue IS the way things ARE and whether or not Mr. Schultz violated federal law. Then the president has been set a long time ago . Mr. Schultz did not commit a crime worthy of federal prosecution in this case . Had they caught him directly smugglig these animals that would have been one thing.

When was the last time someone was arrested for selling a Dumeril boa? How about an Argentine boa? These animals fall under the exact same regulations as the desert monitors. It is the exact same law no matter if its a Madagascan tree boa, a ground boa , radiated tortoise tortoise, an Argentine boa ..................a desert monitor. Transactions involving these animals go on every day. It has become completely acceptable. Legal ! Wildlife officials look and say ok. Its fine. No paperwork necessary.

Nobody is getting arrested for this. That is until they decide they're going to pick on a guy for doing something that they turn a blind eye to thousands of times each year. For doing something that has been accepted by law enforment and in turn they tell everyone is acceptable.


For those the law is the law preachers. Keep that in mind the next time you're doing 50mph when the speed limits suddenly drops to 35 and a cop nabs you or if you're doing 1 mph over the speed limit anywhere for that matter. Speeding kills. Lizards are not so dangerous.

Again, the best support you can muster for your argument is trying to tie this issue into a completely unrelated situation to try to illustrate your points…Your arguments are invalid.


To the person who posted this response . It was an analogy akin to the pot calling the kettle black. The point was that if someone was going to take the law is the law stance then they had better not take the pick and choose approach to applying this philosophy. My comment was both related to the situation and valid.


As for the link to ,

Third Circuit Court of Appeals U.S. v. Molt
Federal
615 F.2d 141 (3rd Cir. 1980)


I was there when all that went down. Over the years I have witnessed and been a part of many things. No bitter pills or weeping just the knowledge and insight as to how the system works and more often then not fails.


Ernie Eison

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by chris_mcmartin » September 18th, 2013, 6:00 pm

WSTREPS wrote: When was the last time someone was arrested for selling a Dumeril boa? How about an Argentine boa? These animals fall under the exact same regulations as the desert monitors.
When I was in Australia, an eco-tour guide told me that every bearded dragon worldwide is technically illegal, because Aussie fauna is property of the Crown, and the founder stock was removed from the country without the Queen's permission.

:?

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Sam Bacchini » September 18th, 2013, 9:47 pm

WSTREPS wrote:When was the last time someone was arrested for selling a Dumeril boa? How about an Argentine boa? These animals fall under the exact same regulations as the desert monitors. It is the exact same law no matter if its a Madagascan tree boa, a ground boa , radiated tortoise tortoise, an Argentine boa ..................a desert monitor. Transactions involving these animals go on every day. It has become completely acceptable. Legal ! Wildlife officials look and say ok. Its fine. No paperwork necessary.
I get the point you are trying to make, but your information isn't entirely accurate. All of the species you mentioned are in fact CITES I, but of the species you mentioned, only the desert monitor and the radiated tortoise are listed under the U.S. Endangered Species Act, and that, not CITES is the law that was allegedly broken here.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Aaron » September 19th, 2013, 9:18 pm

Venomdoc said:
In Sri Lanka he caused so many problems, including stating on camera they were taking genetic material out of the country, that the antivenom program got shutdown for over a year through no fault of the good people doing the actual work but entirely due to the dodginess of Schultz. As this antivenom will be the only one for the island, any delay means more deaths. Since his actions directly caused major disruptions of the antivenom program, this means he was directly responsible for the delay of the antivenom and thus directly responsible for deaths.

I never saw his show, was their lab featured on one of his episodes? Why didn't they check him out and make sure they knew what was he was gonna be filming and that he had all necessary permit before associating with him? If he had such a bad track record why did they deal with him at all?

Sorry but you are claiming a man was directly responsible for deaths but from what I can see all the lab people had to do was not be on TV and it all could have been avoided. Not to mention how stupid(and culpable) does a gov't have to be to shut down their only venom lab for an entire year over some political BS.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by venomdoc » September 19th, 2013, 9:36 pm

Key here Aaron is that places like Sri Lanka are hyper-paranoid about biological resources (after lots of bio-piracy in the past). Obsessively so and way over the top. It was a long process to get the antivenom research in place. Don was under strict instructions by the researchers about what he could and could not say and it was explained to him why. That he was their guest and he had to abide by their permit restrictions. But he went ahead and went behind their backs and created an episode that was (like all the others) a total lie to make himself out to be some sort of bio-god. The gov saw the episode after it aired and it presented a scenario that Don was taking biological samples out of the country which was in direct violation of all the antivenom research program permits. Since it was edited in such a way that it make out that Don was in collaboration with them, and the gov could not go directly after Don, they went after the nearest available target: the antivenom researchers. It was shut down for a while and these innocent people were threatened with prosecution. It took a full year to straighten the mess out. You can imagine how angry and hurt they were at this huge betrayal.

As for why the nice people there let the filming occur to begin with? It is quite simple, they got conned by Don who took advantage of their good nature and their desire to educate the world about the horrible situation in Sri Lanka. He went there early on in the filming of the series before the word got about about his true colours. Doors closed on him all over the place once people realised that he was a total scumbag, but by then the damage was already done in places like Sri Lanka.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by WSTREPS » September 20th, 2013, 7:17 am

I know it is a permitting and not a Cites issue . What I was getting at is the hypocrisy involved with this issue.
How it all fits together.

Cites was meant to set the standard that all participating counties would follow in terms
of how to conduct international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants so that it does not threaten their survival.

All the reptile species I listed are Appendix 1 it includes species threatened with extinction as determined by cites.
Trade in specimens of these species is permitted only in exceptional circumstances. All of them are deserving of equal protection under Cites regulations. The United States government agreed to uphold these international laws as written.

What the United States has done is to say ok now we are going to make our list and disregard the international laws we agreed to. Picking and choosing what we think should be on the list.

If you place one non native species threatened with extinction according to guidelines you agreed to on this list then why not all of them? Categorical they are all the same.

The two species mentioned are at the extreme ends of the spectrum.
Other species falling in the middle or closer to one end of the spectrum are completely ignored yet these species are allegedly equally in danger.

Where was the dividing line? What was this special list based on? Clearly it's not based on any type of viable research.

How were individual non native species singled out for inclusion in this act while others that the US agrees are deserving of equal protection disregarded? It is absolutely absurd. Another example of how govement agencies uses endless red tape and a spider web of loop holes. And at the end of the day all they can manage to do is use this to chase down a few harmless scapegoats as justification and affirmation that they are on the job. I guess this sits well with some.

Ernie Eison

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Andy Avram » September 20th, 2013, 7:49 am

Ernie, are you saying that the US gave additional protection to some species? So in essence, CITES protects Species A,B,C,D,E,F and G. Then the US government chose to recognize that but further protect Species B,D and E under the Endangered Species Act. Is that what you are getting at here? There is well set precedence in every aspect of your American life that laws are broad at the highest level (Federal) and get stricter and more focused the more local you get. For example, last I checked Cave Salamanders are a pretty common species across their range - but come to Ohio and try and collect some and you just poached an Ohio Endangered Species. I don't see any difference in this case with Donald.

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Brian Hubbs » November 3rd, 2013, 10:11 am

Donald is the ultimate con-man. He conned many of us to take him on photo trips to San Diego boardlines, which he later collected the hell out of to send to South Afrika. I really resented that, but went to Vegas to see him in his cage (and also to visit my real friends there). I even sold him a couple books while he was in the glass cage surrounded by his stupid venomous snakes. That was fun. :lol:

I guess what goes around comes around... :shock:

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by hellihooks » November 3rd, 2013, 10:28 am

Yeah... I just found out (from Dr. Hayes) that the dozen or so localities of Helleri I gave Schultz, SUPPOSEDLY for venom research at Loma Linda, never went to Loma Linda. Schultz NEVER had any association with LL, but used that 'cover story' quite often, with many people. :roll: jim

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Re: So...what's become of Wild Recons' Donald Schultz...?

Post by Aaron » December 10th, 2013, 6:57 pm

Here's and update on this story from November 20, 2013. Mr. Schultz plead guilty to selling two live Desert Monitors(Varanus griseus) for $2,500. Under the plea agreement he has been fined $6,000, must pay restitution of $3,000 and must perform 200 hours of community service.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local ... 49221.html

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