Cats

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erik loza
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Re: Cats

Post by erik loza » April 13th, 2011, 11:56 am

Kent VanSooy wrote:C'mon now guys, cats CAN be useful - they hold down lightweight herping books!..
It is the cats who need to be careful in our house. I am waiting for the day that one of the kittens decides to jump up on the edge of the aquarium and paw at our 20" Mbu Puffer...

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KingCam
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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 13th, 2011, 12:03 pm

erik loza wrote:It is the cats who need to be careful in our house. I am waiting for the day that one of the kittens decides to jump up on the edge of the aquarium and paw at our 20" Mbu Puffer...
Okay, now *THAT* is awesome!! Any shots of him puffed up??

- Cam

erik loza
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Re: Cats

Post by erik loza » April 13th, 2011, 12:06 pm

He has only puffed up once, when he was tiny and I accidentally sucked him up in the gravel vacuum. Too unimpressed by anything we do to puff up these days.

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KingCam
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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 13th, 2011, 12:23 pm

erik loza wrote:He has only puffed up once, when he was tiny and I accidentally sucked him up in the gravel vacuum. Too unimpressed by anything we do to puff up these days.
That's a shame, kinda. It's good that he's not stressed out, but it sure would be cool to see him puffed up :P

- Cam

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withalligators
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Re: Cats

Post by withalligators » April 13th, 2011, 12:50 pm

I love cats. Its a recent thing, living with my gf's fantastic (indoor) cat, so my views have changed. I have trouble killing anything, and it breaks my heart when I have to, even when its a mercy kill (road injured, etc.). I have cried like a little bitch putting down deer, raccons, and such. At least with herps you can put them in the freezer. That said, cats do a ton of damage, and the problem ought to be dealt with. A single shot is, I imagine, the most humane thing next to gas, but I'm probably too much of a sissy to look a cat in the eyes and kill it. I wish it were feasible to sterilize and release. sure the cat will do damage for the rest of his life, but he will be competing with other nonsterilized cats for resources. I'm not sure how sound that logic is, honestly, but its no more sound than the notion of killing cats as you see them. You'll never get a handle on ferals cats as a whole that way so all you are doing is killing individuals. What we need is a virus that sterilizes them. And one for people too, thanks.

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snake_girl85
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Re: Cats

Post by snake_girl85 » April 13th, 2011, 1:48 pm

justinm wrote:
reptilist wrote:I guess some people just have a primal bloodlust that seeks a victim, preferably some poor animal whose brutal death can be justified among peers.
And all this time I thought it was just the people who take a shovel to a snake that were guilty of animal cruelty.
:roll:

Killing a native species vs. an invasive that is not only good at killing but does so for pleasure is more than apples and oranges. I don't have anymore problem with the responsible and humane dispatch of a cat than I do a deer or a cow. As long as it's not torture how's it any different? If you're upset because you let your cat roam and feel guilty that's on you.
I'm a relatively new member, a lifelong cat slave, and a shelter worker... And I completely agree with you. Nothing ticks me off more than people who let their cats roam. It's bad for the cats and worse for the native wildlife.

The cat lover in me cringes at the thought of killing feral cats, but the environmentalist in me sees that it is a necessary evil. I don't really see this thread as a bunch of people discussing how they get their jollies from torturing animals, most posts are discussing how to quickly and effectively kill and minimize suffering.

I see plenty of animal abuse, including some jerk who bagged a cat and threw him in a creek because he pooped on the guy's porch. I don't like the idea of killing any cat (or other animal), but from a humane and environmental standpoint, quickly shooting a feral cat who is disrupting an ecosystem is no worse than shooting a deer to control the population.

It may not be feasible for people in more rural areas, but you can try to find a sterile feral trap/neuter/release program. It isn't as immediately effective, but it is an alternative to killing. You may even be able to find someone who already has an established feral colony so that you can release there instead of the area you found them. And of course there's always animal control, but the fate of ferals sent to AC is usually the same as the cats discussed in this thread (except it uses more tax dollars and stresses the cats out more).

-Katie H.

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Re: Cats

Post by stlouisdude » April 13th, 2011, 2:46 pm

TNR ignores the problem that people don't want loose cats roaming around to begin with. It's generally illegal to dump cats on public land but that does not stop the cat fanatics from doing so, like they continue to do at a site just north of St. Louis where several people on this forum actively herp. Second, the scratch the paint on cars and make a mess out of gardens. I grew tired of finding poop in my garden and fresh claw scratches on my new vehicle. Did trapping work? You bet it did! After I trapped the offending cats my problems were over, no others returned, something the cat people never want us to know is that trapping works. If the cats are being lost at a faster pace than they are increasing, their numbers go down just like anything else and I've found many are not true feral colonies but simply cats that were recently dumped or being allowed to roam.

They can neuter the cats if they want, but at least until they neuter me I'll keep taking them to animal control.

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sdbeazley
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Re: Cats

Post by sdbeazley » April 13th, 2011, 4:07 pm

I won't go into any of the politics behind any of this but here are my opinions:

TNR (Trap Neuter Release) has never been a successful method of controlling cat populations or their damage to their released environment. I have trapped feral cats professionally in forests (running 40+ havahart style traps every day for months) and it can be really hard to catch any cat that has ever been trapped. Also if there is a group of cats and one of them enters a trap, the cats that witnessed the event will never enter another trap like device. The only way a trap shy cat will enter another trap is if their is no other food or water options available (meaning the cats already ate/killed all of the food in their territory, or you aren't near any water sources).

Your best bet if you don't want to shoot/poison them is to use a variety of baits like canned food, tuna, water, kitten milk, dry food, and kitchen scraps. Try and wear gloves while handling the trap and food to minimize human scent. Cats are also very hesitant of anything new in their territory so occasionally you have to camouflage the trap and wire floor, while making sure not to hinder the trigger mechanism or the treadle. If the cat is indeed trap shy, you may try to wire the trap open and refresh the food daily for a few days until it becomes comfortable that the door won't slam shut when it enters the trap for a daily meal.

btskanks
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Re: Cats

Post by btskanks » April 13th, 2011, 4:26 pm

RE rabies-no you don't have to be bitten, its the virus in the saliva and there's cases on record of people being scratched and infected. once infected and with symptoms, the mortality rate is almost 100%. I did hear of a survivor a couple of yrs ago, the shots you get after exposure or before, prevent infection-before symptoms. They are a series of "shots" but not painfully awful like thought! almost all animal workers [like vet techs] get them. Deaths are rare in the usa but in developing countries many thousands die per yr. FYI/Rn

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reptilist
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Re: Cats

Post by reptilist » April 13th, 2011, 4:39 pm

Joe,
I use an ice scraper with a long snow brush on the other end to manage my hair.
The brush is for my 'stache and the scraper serves as a hair brush for my bald head.

I agree, time to let it die.

But first, people, make sure that you aren't just as bad as the people who do the rattlesnake roundups. Don't justify your blood lust.
People love their cats, and it is good to respect their feelings and the feelings of all living things. Trap the cats and take them to the local animal control authority for a peaceful euthanasia.

Regarding skunks, yeah, sometimes they get live caught. Approach the trap with a thick blanket held up to hide yourself and then gently drape it over the trap. Or, if you are more the proactive type, cover the cage while it's empty so that the animal inside cannot see what's going on.

Peace out.

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Andy Avram
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Re: Cats

Post by Andy Avram » April 13th, 2011, 5:01 pm

But first, people, make sure that you aren't just as bad as the people who do the rattlesnake roundups. Don't justify your blood lust.
People love their cats, and it is good to respect their feelings and the feelings of all living things. Trap the cats and take them to the local animal control authority for a peaceful euthanasia.
I don't think people here are advocating the killing of someone's pet, especially known pets. For the most part I believe the discussion is on feral or dumped cats that no longer belong to anyone but Mother Nature, and she isn't liking it. Kill them, take them to the humane society, give them away just don't put them back in the environment. And for the record I am not opposed to ANYONE killing ANY non-native herp species. I wish more people here put the FL Burmese Pythons (and for that matter 90% of every other FL herp species, and a good chunk of California's) under their car tire. As long as the killing is quick and humane it is our responsibility to get these non-native, and especially invasive creatures, plants included, OUT of the environment. If you can save the animal by finding a home for it, all the better.

Andy

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Kevin McRae
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Re: Cats

Post by Kevin McRae » April 13th, 2011, 5:38 pm

I love all animals and I realize some animals can be come pest but it`s not there fault. They are only doing what comes natural.

This cat could be someones pet. If someone poisoned or shot my cat they would have one hell of a problem. Like I said I`m very passionate about animals and their life would become hell. Trap the cat and bring it to an animal shelter and posts signs to alert your neighbors of the problem. It`s like someone killing a rattlesnake for living under their porch. You wouldn`t like that much.

Just don`t kill an innocent cat. It could be a little girls pet who she loves very much.

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Re: Cats

Post by Lizardman1988 » April 13th, 2011, 6:08 pm

Kevin McRae wrote:I love all animals and I realize some animals can be come pest but it`s not there fault. They are only doing what comes natural.

This cat could be someones pet. If someone poisoned or shot my cat they would have one hell of a problem. Like I said I`m very passionate about animals and their life would become hell. Trap the cat and bring it to an animal shelter and posts signs to alert your neighbors of the problem. It`s like someone killing a rattlesnake for living under their porch. You wouldn`t like that much.

Just don`t kill an innocent cat. It could be a little girls pet who she loves very much.
I doubt this is some girl's pet
Image

Nature is not kind. Cats may be doing what comes natural to them, but they are where they shouldn't naturally be. They need to be taken care of, and if that means quickly dispatching a feral cat by a shot to the head, then so be it. A rattlesnake living under a porch at least would be native, and therefore killing it would be less morally right.

Edit: that cat kind of looks like that nasty beast from the NeverEnding Story
Image

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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Cats

Post by chris_mcmartin » April 13th, 2011, 6:10 pm

Kevin McRae wrote:This cat could be someones pet. If someone poisoned or shot my cat they would have one hell of a problem.
I'll say--they must've broken into your house to get at the cat.

HerpHail
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Re: Cats

Post by HerpHail » April 13th, 2011, 7:12 pm

erik loza wrote:I would never discharge a pistol, crossbow, or anything else in an urban neighborhood. The potential legal liability if your shot goes astray...
Add on animal cruelty, even if you miss, you attempted to kill a cat, which is animal cruelty.

I know many of you are joking, it is (kind of) understandable that it's in good fun (although I don't joke about inflicting pain on anything, not even rodents though I will readily exterminate them). But you people get so irate when you see videos of people chopping the heads off of rattlesnakes or other snakes because they claim "they're a danger to their pets and children", but you guys are talking about doing the same thing to a DOMESTIC ANIMAL for killing a lizard? That doesn't make you any better than the mommies worried about their kids around the big bad rattlesnake... it makes you worse, like a redneck with a little .22 that just wants to shoot things.

I really love reptiles too, I get upset when my cat kills a lizard probably as much as you do. The thought of killing the cat for doing it NEVER crosses my mind. Snakes are near the bottom of the food chain, nearly everything will eat a reptile, deal with it.

If you can't deal, for god's sake, spray it with a hose, I won't get mad at you for spraying my cat with a hose, I might actually laugh. The fun stops when you talk about shooting it.

HerpHail
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Re: Cats

Post by HerpHail » April 13th, 2011, 7:15 pm

chris_mcmartin wrote:
Kevin McRae wrote:This cat could be someones pet. If someone poisoned or shot my cat they would have one hell of a problem.
I'll say--they must've broken into your house to get at the cat.
My cat can be found roaming the neighborhood for a few hours during the daytime. He occasionally brings home a lizard, gopher, or more recently a bird. He wears a collar, is longhaired and well groomed (sometimes shaved), very obviously a pet cat.
Cats go outside. Don't like it? Don't live in the suburbs.

erik loza
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Re: Cats

Post by erik loza » April 13th, 2011, 7:22 pm

HerpHail wrote:
erik loza wrote:I would never discharge a pistol, crossbow, or anything else in an urban neighborhood. The potential legal liability if your shot goes astray...
Add on animal cruelty....
That seems to vary by municipality. In Texas, people would only care if you shot a dog or took a game species out of season.

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, just saying that not every place views cats the same way as California does.

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Andy Avram
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Re: Cats

Post by Andy Avram » April 13th, 2011, 7:24 pm

HerpHail, with all due respect, do some research on outdoor cats and their environmental impacts. Our discussions here are not even close to being on par with redbecks hacking snake heads off. This is not a killing animal issue so much as an environmental issue.

Andy

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Kevin McRae
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Re: Cats

Post by Kevin McRae » April 13th, 2011, 7:37 pm

Lizardman1988 wrote:
Kevin McRae wrote:I love all animals and I realize some animals can be come pest but it`s not there fault. They are only doing what comes natural.

This cat could be someones pet. If someone poisoned or shot my cat they would have one hell of a problem. Like I said I`m very passionate about animals and their life would become hell. Trap the cat and bring it to an animal shelter and posts signs to alert your neighbors of the problem. It`s like someone killing a rattlesnake for living under their porch. You wouldn`t like that much.

Just don`t kill an innocent cat. It could be a little girls pet who she loves very much.
I doubt this is some girl's pet
Image

Nature is not kind. Cats may be doing what comes natural to them, but they are where they shouldn't naturally be. They need to be taken care of, and if that means quickly dispatching a feral cat by a shot to the head, then so be it. A rattlesnake living under a porch at least would be native, and therefore killing it would be less morally right.
Edit: that cat kind of looks like that nasty beast from the NeverEnding Story
Image
Us humans are the reason these "feral" cats exist. Killing all of our problems doesn't solve the problem 100%. These cats did not ask to be put in this location, it's not their fault they were domesticated. Sorry but I'm kind of a tree hugger. I'm no PETA member but I don't like animals being killed for no reason. You can't be a hypocrite killing animals you don't like and bitching about people killing the ones you do like. Well, you can but I don't think it's right.

Like I said, trapping the cat and bringing it to an animal shelter has the same effect as killing the cat but this way the cat lives and can find a new home. They may be overpopulated but it doesn't mean it's some piece of garbage you can just throw away because you don't like it.

I'm not against removing feral cats and keeping cats indoors. I'm just against the unnecessary killing.

Also, the first cat is actually cute. Second one, well, not so much. haha.

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Re: Cats

Post by J-Miz » April 13th, 2011, 7:39 pm

My mom began feeding a feral cat that decided to take up shop in our yard about six years ago. Before you knew it, we had about thirty cats in our yard...many offspring from the original cat, and some that were attracted by the others. I've tried hard to convince her she needs to stop. She's taken some measures, but not enough. I'd say the number is down to 14 or so now.

In the past few years, numerous critters have been brought back to the garage by these cats. Just off the top of my head:

Birds -- residents such as Blue Jays, Mourning Dove, Northern Flickers, Northern Cardinals, American Robin, Black-capped Chickadees...and migrants such as Northern Parula and Yellow-rumped Warbler
Reptiles -- Eastern Garter Snake
Amphibians -- Green Frog
Mammals -- native mice (White-footed/Deer), Eastern Chipmunk, Fox Squirrel, shrews, Star-nosed Moles

I think cats are great INDOOR pets but the ecological damage they do when placed outdoors is ENORMOUS. I hate feral cats and really wish there were programs designed around here to eliminate them.

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Daryl Eby
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Re: Cats

Post by Daryl Eby » April 13th, 2011, 7:47 pm

HerpHail wrote:My cat can be found roaming the neighborhood for a few hours during the daytime. He occasionally brings home a lizard, gopher, or more recently a bird.
Let me get this straight.

Cat repeatedly killing native wild animals for personal entertainment = OK.
Conservationist killing a cat in order to save the lives of countless native animals = not OK.

Perhaps you should think this through a little more. In the meantime, keep your murderous feline indoors.

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Joseph S.
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Re: Cats

Post by Joseph S. » April 13th, 2011, 7:56 pm

Agreed.

This is not an issue of animal cruelty or one animal being more likeable than another but of environmental responsibility. It is certainly not hypocritical.

It is definetly not any fault of the cats that they are there-but thats just too bad. Life isn't fair. It certainly isn't fair for all the wildlife that are getting killed by cats.

Its no surprise that we are having a bit of trouble getting this across even on FHF. Most normal people would probably think I am an absolute wackjob and animal killer for expressing these views.

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Andy Avram
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Re: Cats

Post by Andy Avram » April 13th, 2011, 8:03 pm

Here are a couple of examples of why cats are bad, there are more.

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodivers ... index.html

http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm

Here is an extreme case of an outdoor pet cat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephens_Island_Wren


Think of it this way. A certain habitat can support a finite number of prey species. These prey species can support a much lower number of predator species. In a normal ecosystem, although not every ecosystem, there are a few different species of prey and predator species (and yes some predators prey on other predators but we are trying to keep this simple). Through weather, disease, plant populations (essentially the base of the food chain) and a host of other factors the number of prey/predator species/individuals that can be supported fluctuates through time, but averages a level number. When we introduce ANY non-native species to this ecosystem things become disrupted, although some species have a greater impact than others. Disruption can be the introduction of a novel disease or the ability to out compete native species. With cats you not only have these two factors to take in to account but also that they are usually fed by “caring” people. Once feeding comes into play the number of prey species that the environment can sustain no longer matters because the new predator, the cat, has supplemental feedings. How is the native wildlife, both predator and prey species, supposed to compete with that? The answer is they can’t and the environment becomes severely stressed and compromised. And don’t ever fool yourself into thinking that any outdoor cat isn’t killing wildlife.

Now you can get into worthless philosophical babble on humans being a part of the environment so everything we do is natural. This also equates to pissing all over the environment. Or you can realize that is our responsibility as a thinking being, capable of making decisions, to do our best to be stewards of the environment and take care of it as best we can. Even if that means making hard choices such as removing cats at all costs (really who wants a wild, mean feral cat in the house?).

There is a profound difference to removing invasive non-native species (and keeping invasive native species, Whitetail Deer anyone?) in check due to sound environmental studies and logic as opposed to the senseless, ignorant killing of native wildlife out of fear, pleasure or boredom.

Andy

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Daryl Eby
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Re: Cats

Post by Daryl Eby » April 13th, 2011, 8:04 pm

Kevin McRae wrote:Us humans are the reason these "feral" cats exist.
Exactly. That is why "us humans" must remove them. The hard reality is that there are not enough indoor homes for all the feral cats. That means the only realistic way to remove them is to kill them. Whether with a well placed bullet or clinical euthanasia is irrelevant.
I'm no PETA member but I don't like animals being killed for no reason.
It is not for "no reason". It needs to be done to protect NATIVE wildlife.
You can't be a hypocrite killing animals you don't like and bitching about people killing the ones you do like. Well, you can but I don't think it's right.
Not hypocritical at all. Killing feral cats = protecting wildlife. Opposing the killing of native snakes = protecting wildlife. Cats are NOT native and they are extremely harmful to wildlife. Hypocritical is claiming to love nature and letting cats roam free outside.

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Daryl Eby
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Re: Cats

Post by Daryl Eby » April 13th, 2011, 8:37 pm


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Kevin McRae
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Re: Cats

Post by Kevin McRae » April 13th, 2011, 8:39 pm

Daryl Eby wrote:It is not for "no reason". It needs to be done to protect NATIVE wildlife.
It's a reason to remove them but not kill.
Hypocritical is claiming to love nature and letting cats roam free outside.
Obviously you didn't read my above post when I wrote
"I'm not against removing feral cats and keeping cats indoors. I'm just against the unnecessary killing."
Maybe I'll go kill the kid I caught smashing my car window and stealing my ipod. Maybe he shouldn't be allowed outside. Kill someones cat and you're getting jail or getting a fine. I didn't make the law.....

But anyways I see this debate going nowhere. My final thought is killing one animal to protect the other isn't the correct attitude. Sorry it's my opinion and you're more than welcome to disagree. I'm more than okay with live removal.

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Re: Cats

Post by HerpHail » April 13th, 2011, 8:46 pm

Daryl Eby wrote:
HerpHail wrote:My cat can be found roaming the neighborhood for a few hours during the daytime. He occasionally brings home a lizard, gopher, or more recently a bird.
Let me get this straight.

Cat repeatedly killing native wild animals for personal entertainment = OK.
Conservationist killing a cat in order to save the lives of countless native animals = not OK.

Perhaps you should think this through a little more. In the meantime, keep your murderous feline indoors.
The 'ENORMOUS ecological damage' my 'murderous feline' does to native species is absolutely NOTHING in comparison to human destruction. Anything from roadkills to land developers plowing over rocky outcrops. What do you think we should stop first? I don't think Fluffy is the greatest threat to wildlife. SUBURBAN wildlife, no less.

rtdunham
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Re: Cats

Post by rtdunham » April 13th, 2011, 8:55 pm

-EJ wrote:My question... those of you who live in rural areas... have to have the same problem... do you deal with it... and how?...
I think there's an ethical dilemma we need to address here: after we've killed the cats that eat reptiles in our yards, do we go after the other predators that do the same--the raccoons, foxes, possums, hawks, heck--even other snakes? And what about exotics that alter the natural landscape--should we be oragnized and diligent in hunting them all down?

(No, i don't have an answer in mind. These are questions I've been wondering about for a while.)

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M Wolverton
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Re: Cats

Post by M Wolverton » April 13th, 2011, 9:17 pm

HerpHail wrote:
Daryl Eby wrote:
HerpHail wrote:My cat can be found roaming the neighborhood for a few hours during the daytime. He occasionally brings home a lizard, gopher, or more recently a bird.
Let me get this straight.

Cat repeatedly killing native wild animals for personal entertainment = OK.
Conservationist killing a cat in order to save the lives of countless native animals = not OK.

Perhaps you should think this through a little more. In the meantime, keep your murderous feline indoors.
The 'ENORMOUS ecological damage' my 'murderous feline' does to native species is absolutely NOTHING in comparison to human destruction. Anything from roadkills to land developers plowing over rocky outcrops. What do you think we should stop first? I don't think Fluffy is the greatest threat to wildlife. SUBURBAN wildlife, no less.
If someone calls animal control and they come catch your cat and take it away (they will), it'll be your fault. Your cat does not belong anywhere off your property. If someone traps your cat in their yard and kills it, that will also be your fault. If someone driving down the road hits your cat and kills it, it will be your fault. If it picks up a disease, every songbird (illegal to kill) it kills, every flower bed it craps in, and neighbors boat it pees in, your fault.

Instead of continuing to make your cat everyone else's problem, why don't you take some responsibility for it and keep it inside? Our two cats are not a nuisance to our neighbors, local wildlife, or in danger because we keep them inside where they belong.

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justinm
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Re: Cats

Post by justinm » April 14th, 2011, 4:01 am

HerpHail wrote:
Daryl Eby wrote:
HerpHail wrote:My cat can be found roaming the neighborhood for a few hours during the daytime. He occasionally brings home a lizard, gopher, or more recently a bird.
Let me get this straight.

Cat repeatedly killing native wild animals for personal entertainment = OK.
Conservationist killing a cat in order to save the lives of countless native animals = not OK.

Perhaps you should think this through a little more. In the meantime, keep your murderous feline indoors.
The 'ENORMOUS ecological damage' my 'murderous feline' does to native species is absolutely NOTHING in comparison to human destruction. Anything from roadkills to land developers plowing over rocky outcrops. What do you think we should stop first? I don't think Fluffy is the greatest threat to wildlife. SUBURBAN wildlife, no less.
Couple words come to mind. Denial, Ignorant, and Dumbass.

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Re: Cats

Post by AlanER » April 14th, 2011, 4:38 am

I think about it this way. Survival of the fittest. Obviously, that cats are more fit to survive than most reptiles. Especially in Suburbia. But, I also think about our survival. We spend all this money buying rats and rabbits for our snake to eat. Why not spend less and feed them cats? Now it's not a matter of sensless killing, but a means of survival for your snake and your wallet. Outside cat ruining your native wildlife and pissing all over your home? Just buy a large constrictor! Or buy a couple. That should solve our problems :crazyeyes:

erik loza
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Re: Cats

Post by erik loza » April 14th, 2011, 5:13 am

HerpHail wrote:...The 'ENORMOUS ecological damage' my 'murderous feline' does to native species is absolutely NOTHING in comparison to human destruction...
That's not the conversation we're having. We're talking about feral cats, not people.

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KingCam
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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 14th, 2011, 5:58 am

Andy Avram wrote:...and keeping invasive native species, Whitetail Deer anyone?...
I try to put 7 or 8 whitetail in my freezer every fall. Cuts WAY back on grocery bills, I can grill steaks multiple times a week, venison is much healthier and leaner than beef, and I'm not supporting the way the beef market treats cattle. It's like a win, win, win, win situation! Plus I butcher and process them by myself, so I don't pay the outrageous processing fees at the butcher shop.
Kevin McRae wrote:Maybe I'll go kill the kid I caught smashing my car window and stealing my ipod. Maybe he shouldn't be allowed outside.
I probably would, and I agree with the 'not being allowed outside' thing. Not until the little bas**rd can learn to respect other peoples' property anyway.
Kevin McRae wrote:Kill someones cat and you're getting jail or getting a fine. I didn't make the law.
That's why you don't get caught killing the cat or the kid :lol:

- Cam

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Re: Cats

Post by Daryl Eby » April 14th, 2011, 6:05 am

KingCam wrote:
Kevin McRae wrote:Kill someones cat and you're getting jail or getting a fine. I didn't make the law.
That's why you don't get caught killing the cat or the kid :lol:
Nope. That's why you get the kid to kill the cat, video tape it, then send the tape to the cops. Win win. :lol:

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KingCam
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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 14th, 2011, 6:07 am

Daryl Eby wrote:
KingCam wrote:
Kevin McRae wrote:Kill someones cat and you're getting jail or getting a fine. I didn't make the law.
That's why you don't get caught killing the cat or the kid :lol:
Nope. That's why you get the kid to kill the cat, video tape it, then send the tape to the cops. Win win.
I like your style, Daryl (even if you do spell your first name the same as my boss :evil:)

- Cam

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Re: Cats

Post by erik loza » April 14th, 2011, 6:30 am

AlanER wrote:...
True story, early 90's. A local guy kept and alligator in a pen in his back yard and there was a feral cat problem.

There was a trapdoor over part of the pen and he would bait it with cans of tuna.

He told me how he would hear a splash in the middle of the night, and then a bunch of commotion, every so often.

The feral cat population gradually declined with time.

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Re: Cats

Post by Bitinglittlewitch » April 14th, 2011, 7:44 am

As is the old saying in Texas-- Shoot, Shovel, and Shut Up.

Personally, I like the above method the best.

I bet every one of you cat kissers eats an animal part at every meal. Feral cats are invasive! Personally, I use a live trap. You can easily tell a feral from someone's pet. I drop the pets of at the pound, they are adoptable. Ferals, I lower into the cow watering tank while still in the trap. Its very quiet, which was the original guy's problem. But from reading this informative thread I have discovered the 1000 fps pellet gun. Thanks.

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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 14th, 2011, 8:13 am

Bitinglittlewitch wrote:But from reading this informative thread I have discovered the 1000 fps pellet gun. Thanks.
If you have a trapped animal you simply put the barrel of the gun through the cage, and fire a pellet point-blank into the skull. It's quiet, fast, and effective. Plus, because it's a pellet gun, you don't have to worry about a .22 round passing all of the way through and damaging something on the other side.

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Re: Cats

Post by HerpHail » April 14th, 2011, 11:59 am

justinm wrote:Couple words come to mind. Denial, Ignorant, and Dumbass.
Thank you. No need to resort to name calling. So far of all the forums I've been a part of, the herping communities are the least likeable in more ways than one. Good on you for upholding that higher standard. There's no need to be an ass to people.
M Wolverton wrote:Instead of continuing to make your cat everyone else's problem, why don't you take some responsibility for it and keep it inside? Our two cats are not a nuisance to our neighbors, local wildlife, or in danger because we keep them inside where they belong.
When the 10 other families round up their felines, I'll do the same. No one complains about the cats here, ever.

I have no issue with programs keeping feral populations of any animal down. Dogs, cats, pigs, deer, etc. Shooting them is not the answer though, it makes no impact, you're just doing it for your own sick entertainment.

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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 14th, 2011, 12:16 pm

HerpHail wrote:...you're just doing it for your own sick entertainment.
And you're painting a very large group of people with the same brush. Same as name calling in my opinion.
HerpHail wrote:When the 10 other families round up their felines, I'll do the same.
By the same justification the other people on this forum can keep killing cats because 10 others are doing it, too.

- Cam

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Bitinglittlewitch
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Re: Cats

Post by Bitinglittlewitch » April 14th, 2011, 12:37 pm

So, what would this person like to have done with feral cats? Keep them in cages?

Feral cats do not become socialized to humans, ever. They are beyond that stage. Sterilize and release? They keep on killing about 3 native wildlife creatures per day. Science has proven that.

Personally, I do not want to start a feral cat confinement farm.. So I off them. Quietly and humanely. Theres nothing wrong with that.

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KingCam
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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 14th, 2011, 12:42 pm

Bitinglittlewitch wrote:So, what would this person like to have done with feral cats? Keep them in cages?

Feral cats do not become socialized to humans, ever. They are beyond that stage. Sterilize and release? They keep on killing about 3 native wildlife creatures per day. Science has proven that.

Personally, I do not want to start a feral cat confinement farm.. So I off them. Quietly and humanely. Theres nothing wrong with that.
I agree. People who are wrong (and know it) usually come up with very weak arguments to defend their actions ("My neighbors all do it.") and ridiculous accusations to draw attention away from their own wrong doings ("You're all just sick monsters with a blood lust."). The bottom line is this: cats are destroying wildlife and if it weren't for irresponsible cat owners letting their pets run wild this would never have become an issue. We wouldn't have an excuse or a reason to carry out these acts for our "own entertainment" if the problems hadn't been created by irresponsible pet owners in the first place. Keep your damn cats in your house and the problem ends! Besides, why have a pet if it's not even in your house for you to enjoy? If I wanted a cat shi**ing in my garden and eating the snakes in my wood pile I would have bought my own, I don't want your cat.

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Re: Cats

Post by Joseph S. » April 14th, 2011, 12:53 pm

Just because your neighbors are not hammering down your door and talking to you personally does not mean they are totally fine with your cats. See above post.

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Re: Cats

Post by Don Becker » April 14th, 2011, 12:54 pm

I'm not against removing feral cats and keeping cats indoors. I'm just against the unnecessary killing.
I am not sure about shelters in your area, but the ones near me are usually full, if not over capacity. Most strays that come in will be put down.

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Re: Cats

Post by Mark Brown » April 14th, 2011, 12:56 pm

I think we're discussing two separate problems here, one being feral cats which are entirely capable of, and have been blamed for the extinction of entire species in a worst-case scenario, and pet cats whose owners seem to have gotten the notion that the entire neighborhood needs to share in their choice of pets, to the detriment of the local wildlife populations.

In the case of pet cats, I think killing them is a bit extreme and would lean toward the trap/animal shelter solution.

In the case of feral cat populations, I think that eradication by any means necessary is justified and should be encouraged.

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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 14th, 2011, 12:59 pm

Joseph S. wrote:Just because your neighbors are not hammering down your door and talking to you personally does not mean they are totally fine with your cats. See above post.
Indeed. I haven't approached my neighbors about it because I want to maintain a good relationship with the people I live near. And as this discussion has so painfully and obviously displayed; people get mad when you confront them about their choice of letting their cat(s) roam free. It's too bad my outdoor-cat neighbors don't have the same respect for my feelings as I do theirs.

- Cam

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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 14th, 2011, 1:04 pm

Mark Brown wrote:I think we're discussing two separate problems here, one being feral cats which are entirely capable of, and have been blamed for the extinction of entire species in a worst-case scenario, and pet cats whose owners seem to have gotten the notion that the entire neighborhood needs to share in their choice of pets, to the detriment of the local wildlife populations.

In the case of pet cats, I think killing them is a bit extreme and would lean toward the trap/animal shelter solution.

In the case of feral cat populations, I think that eradication by any means necessary is justified and should be encouraged.
I agree that known pets should not be "murdered." Feral cats should all be killed. However I don't feel we're dealing with two separate issues at all. Pet cats running free breed and perpetuate the feral population. That's how feral cats came to exist in the first place, among other causes. And assuming they're fixed (spayed/neutered) and won't breed, they're *STILL* killing wildlife, so it's *STILL* wrong to let them roam free.

- Cam

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Re: Cats

Post by HerpHail » April 14th, 2011, 1:22 pm

KingCam wrote:People who are wrong (and know it) usually come up with very weak arguments to defend their actions ("My neighbors all do it.") and ridiculous accusations to draw attention away from their own wrong doings ("You're all just sick monsters with a blood lust."). The bottom line is this: cats are destroying wildlife and if it weren't for irresponsible cat owners letting their pets run wild this would never have become an issue. We wouldn't have an excuse or a reason to carry out these acts for our "own entertainment" if the problems hadn't been created by irresponsible pet owners in the first place. Keep your damn cats in your house and the problem ends! Besides, why have a pet if it's not even in your house for you to enjoy? If I wanted a cat shi**ing in my garden and eating the snakes in my wood pile I would have bought my own, I don't want your cat.
1. "You're all just sick monsters with blood lust"? Way to take something way out of context. The general gist of this thread is having fun shooting cats, joking or not (and I don't think some of you are joking), so yeah, it's sick entertainment, but I did not call you all sick monsters with bloodlust.

2. You know what else kills snakes? Dogs, cars, birds of prey, kids, mommies, racoons, possums, hell I've seen a monstrous rabbit kill a snake. You know what else will kill a snake? A freakin' snake. Cats kill snakes too. Chances are? A snake will be eaten by SOMETHING at some point.

3. To touch on #2, do you know how many people care about what kills those poor little snakes or lizards? This forum. That's about how many people care when they see someone's pet cat eating a dead lizard. To 80% of the population, "Oh look the cat caught a lizard/gopher/rat/whatever, good for the cat." A lot of those same people DON'T think that killing a lizard is a problem in the least, and probably won't say "Oooooh that owner is so irresponsible, how dare they let their cat outside!" Because around here, where I live, chances are they have a cat that does the same damn thing. My cat is neutered, friendly, and indoors 80% of the time. Call me irresponsible. But if someone like you moves in this neighborhood and starts shooting all of the cats with pellet guns, you cause an uproar within our community and you will be hunted down and reported.

Where you are, cats may be a nuisance, fine, find a humane way to control them. But just because cats are a problem where YOU are doesn't mean they're a problem everywhere. Cats are widely accepted here, so I would appreciate you NOT calling me a dumbass ignorant person in denial about her little kitty cat, because you're painting everyone in my area with the same brush.

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Re: Cats

Post by HerpHail » April 14th, 2011, 1:25 pm

KingCam wrote:
Joseph S. wrote:Just because your neighbors are not hammering down your door and talking to you personally does not mean they are totally fine with your cats. See above post.
Indeed. I haven't approached my neighbors about it because I want to maintain a good relationship with the people I live near. And as this discussion has so painfully and obviously displayed; people get mad when you confront them about their choice of letting their cat(s) roam free. It's too bad my outdoor-cat neighbors don't have the same respect for my feelings as I do theirs.

- Cam
My number is literally written on my pet. If he bothers you, have the balls to call me, if not, suck it up. I can't do anything about it if I don't know there's a problem. I will happily tell you to spray him with the hose next time you see him.

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Re: Cats

Post by KingCam » April 14th, 2011, 1:31 pm

HerpHail wrote:
KingCam wrote:
Joseph S. wrote:Just because your neighbors are not hammering down your door and talking to you personally does not mean they are totally fine with your cats. See above post.
Indeed. I haven't approached my neighbors about it because I want to maintain a good relationship with the people I live near. And as this discussion has so painfully and obviously displayed; people get mad when you confront them about their choice of letting their cat(s) roam free. It's too bad my outdoor-cat neighbors don't have the same respect for my feelings as I do theirs.

- Cam
My number is literally written on my pet. If he bothers you, have the balls to call me, if not, suck it up. I can't do anything about it if I don't know there's a problem. I will happily tell you to spray him with the hose next time you see him.
So I'm supposed to try to catch your cat so I can find your number? How am I supposed to know your cat is nice? How am I supposed to know it won't attack me and give me the rabies it just picked up from the raccoon it got in a fight with the night before? I'm telling you right now, you cat IS irritating your non-cat neighbors. Is that enough of a notification that there's a problem? Or are you going to just wait until you actually do drive one of your neighbors to either confront you or hurt your cat? Let's say, hypothetically speaking, your neighbors are all fine with it, your cat is still destroying wildlife so there IS a problem whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Do you consider yourself a responsible pet owner knowing your cat could be killed by an angry neighbor or even a random commuter at any time? This discussion is proof, there ARE people out there that will hurt your cat if its on their property.

Have the balls to call you or suck it up?? Maybe I'll just go with option #3: Kill the damn cat and be done with it. Plus, since I never called you, you won't know which neighbor to report to the police. (I already said I don't actually believe in killing pets, but I think I've made my point.)

Spraying it with the hose doesn't solve the wildlife destruction part of the equation. And what if I'm trying to enjoy a cup of coffee or something? When I see your cat I'm supposed to stop what I'm doing, get my shoes on, rush out the house, turn on the hose, and hope your cat will wait around for me to teach it a lesson? In my experience cats run away before you can even attempt to do anything like that. Wouldn't you agree? I'd rather my neighbors take responsibility for their own animals so I don't have to. Again, if I wanted to spend my time "training" a cat, I would have bought one for myself. You take care of it, why should I have to?

- Cam

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