This never gets old...

Captive care and husbandry discussions.

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lateralis
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This never gets old...

Post by lateralis » October 2nd, 2013, 9:02 pm

baby snakes are such a blast
time for a :beer:
Image

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regalringneck
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by regalringneck » October 3rd, 2013, 6:00 am

... yowser, those are some nice phat neo's there poppa, mega-congrats & here hoping you n mama are getting some well deserved rest, ... dream'n of fuzzies & mebbe a 2x clutch : }

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lateralis
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by lateralis » October 3rd, 2013, 8:25 am

Thanks amigo
The 5th element popped this morning so a nice round 100% on the hatch. Momma is good but done for this year. These were incubated at 20 % less humidity than last year and hatch was better, last batch was good as well but hatched 10 days earlier at lower temps :crazyeyes:

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chris_mcmartin
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by chris_mcmartin » October 3rd, 2013, 3:30 pm

I have an idea of what these might be, but don't want to show my ignorance by posting my guess... :P

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lateralis
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by lateralis » October 3rd, 2013, 6:22 pm

Hi Chris
Those are just some rattus verde I had in the crock pot ;) Really great captives, easy to maintain and breed in my experience and rather stately in demeanor.
Cheers

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chris_mcmartin
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by chris_mcmartin » October 4th, 2013, 3:22 am

Ahh...that's what I was thinking they were. :thumb:

tbrock
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by tbrock » October 4th, 2013, 6:51 am

Nice intermedia neos! Is that a total of six? Have you ever gotten more? What locality are those? I got a 100% good clutch of 11 from a big Pajarito Mountains female, this year. I recently wrote it up in the SWCHR Bulletin as a possible record.

Also - what is that incubation medium? I incubate mine on top of fluorescent light diffuser over wet perlite - keeps them humid but not in contact with a moist medium, with lots of air flow around the eggs.

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by Kent VanSooy » October 4th, 2013, 11:31 am

The demeanor of mine is typically less than stately - the adults are on the nervous side, and the neos typically chomp me every chance they get!

I was wondering about the medium too - kinda looks like the eggs are floating on soap suds! Toby, that's interesting you don't let your eggs contact the media - I use moist vermiculate and don't worry about the contact. I even (egads!) will spray the eggs directly on occasion - it doesn't cause any trouble. The trick I think is getting good eggs, and once you have those, they're almost hard to hurt.

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lateralis
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by lateralis » October 4th, 2013, 12:27 pm

Thanks Tbrock, wow 11 eggs eh, that is a good clutch indeed, I'll look forward to seeing the write up. The parents are from Pima County and there are 5 in this clutch, the 6th egg was a dud out of the gate.

Kent, mine can be nervous too but overall mine seem very calm compared to others I have seen. The babies are snappy but seem to grow out of it in my experience.

As far as incubation medium goes - simple aquarium batting. It supports the eggs very well, allows for humid air movement around the entire egg, and seems to work well across a wide range of species. I have used the technique on womas, MX hogs, Dback terrapins, Banded geckos, pretty much whatever eggs I have at the time. It is ridiculously easy to set up and works like a charm. I think I spritzed the tub with water once or twice during the 83 days they were incubating; which in actuality is simply me putting the tub on a dark shelf in the hallway of the house where they fluctuate between 76-82 deg.

tbrock
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by tbrock » October 4th, 2013, 2:12 pm

Kent - Back several years ago, I used to incubate all of my eggs buried in moist sphagnum moss - until I started breeding Chinese Beauty Snakes. Their eggs have super thick, tough shells, and I found that if the eggs stayed full of fluid (turgid) all the way to hatching, the babies would not be able to get out of the eggs, and would drown before I knew they were in trouble. I lost an entire clutch of calicos and het calicos this way, and resolved to fix the problem. After a lot of disussion with American, British and European beauty snake keepers (and a lot of other research), I decided that the problem may be due to the eggs being too full of fluid from being in contact with a moist medium, and were too wet. This is also documented in literature - the book that comes to mind most easily is Dusty Rhoads' "Complete Suboc". Either he or the Barkers talk about eggs denting in near the end of incubation being a necessary stage of incubation. At least some species have issues with pipping and fluid content in the eggs, and a slight indentation in the egg will allow an air bubble to form when the baby pips (when the baby snake is slicing at the eggshell, it needs to start breathing air immediately) This was essential for the beauty snake eggs / babies, and also the denting / slight drying seems to help break down the eggshell slightly to the point it is not so tough, and easier for the baby snakes to cut through. Anyway - I started incubating the beauty snake eggs on top of fluorescent light diffuser in empty shoebox tubs inside a large aquarium which was half full of water. They were in near 100% humidity, but were not wet - and they had plenty of air flow, to breathe. With the first "zero medium" incubation, I got a 100% perfect hatch rate, and continued to have these results as long as I bred beauty snakes. I eventually modified this to my current approach (1.5" - 2" layer of wet perlite under fluorescent light diffuser), and now incubate most of my eggs inside shoeboxes in my snake racks. I use shoeboxes with no air holes, but with the lids on very loosely - and open the boxes once per week for several minutes for air exchange. This has worked well for all species of colubrids I have successfully bred (Asian and American Rats). Some species' eggs dent in dramatically before hatching (beauties) while the green rat eggs typically barely dent at all, and never need extra moisture / misting. I don't trust myself to make a moist medium which is not too moist is one reason I still do this, and it ain't broke so I ain't fixin' it. LOL I have mostly used this method for the green rat eggs, since I started breeding them in 2010. I think I remember using HatchRite for a clutch one year - I like the stuff for most species, but I like the light diffuser over perlite method better. I do mostly agree with your statement about "good eggs" - and I have had my share of infertile eggs or eggs that died along the way, from the green rats. My results seem to improve each year though...

Lateralis - That is an interesting medium, and thanks for telling me about it. I will send you the article if you will pm me your email address.

All - My green rats have quite variable temperaments - from very docile and inquisitive to downright vicious - and it varies from idividual to individual, definitely not a locality thing. I have two adult wild caught pairs and have raised several of both localities' offspring to adulthood as well. My big old Pajarito female is like a wc Texas rat painted green - she will bite out of defensiveness and has a strong feeding response as well - will come out of the cage at me, biting at anything moving when the smell of thawed mouse is in the air. Her mate, also from the Pajaritos is very mellow -and never bites. My big female from the Santa Ritas is docile but has a strong feeding response - although not as bad as the Pajarito female. Her mate from the Ritas is like a racer - just wild, fast, jumpy and nippy!

-Toby

RUSS
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by RUSS » November 19th, 2013, 3:18 pm

Ok, I'm very interested in the batting idea. So they're on batting in containers in a tub, but are the containers setting on a moist medium or is there free standing water?

Thanks
Russ

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Nshepard
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Re: This never gets old...

Post by Nshepard » November 20th, 2013, 5:01 pm

Yep, never gets old....so post some more!

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