snake regurge question- what would you do?-another update

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Kfen
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snake regurge question- what would you do?-another update

Post by Kfen » February 25th, 2014, 4:49 pm

I have a 30 inch rein rat snake (Rhadinophis frenata) that has regurged its last 2 meals. I am hoping someone can help me out. Here is the whole story: It was doing fine for the previous 10 or so months that I have had it. It is currently being kept in the mid 60's at night and mid 70's during the day. It got out of its cage and was lost for ~10 days. I'm not sure where it was but it could have experienced temps in the mid 50's(possibly lower in the outside wall?). When I found it on the floor, I temp gunned it at 57. It defecated the day I found it. (The poop looked normal but that shows that it had food in its system while experiencing the low temps and I fear that may be the issue.) I slowly brought it back up to normal temps and fed it after 7 days. It regurged the mouse by the next day (likely very quickly because it was not digested whatsoever). I boosted the night time temps a little just to be safe, waited another 10 days, and fed it a small meal again. Regurged within 2 hours. I have another that is at the same temps and doing just fine. Any thoughts on what I should do from here? Could some food have rotted in its gut while it was out? Should I drop the temps and give it a short little brumation to calm things down? Raise the temps a little and not feed for a few weeks to let it fight off possible infection? Take it to the vet who is an hour away and has a $100 office visit? It appears and is acting healthy otherwise.
Thanks for any thoughts

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Kelly Mc
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Re: snake regurge question

Post by Kelly Mc » February 25th, 2014, 5:32 pm

If you drop the temps the snakes immune system and metabolism will also fall, and a bloom of opportunistic flora could become pathogenic.

If you provide a good dense POTZ that is inclusive of security and make sure he is hydrated it would be a good idea. If you make it an option you will find he will seek it instinctively. But I would be very proactive in hydrating him. Pedialyte added to the water and kept fresh is a good idea. If you aren't going to tube him, give him several water sites, including one very near to his warm sheltered area.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: snake regurge question

Post by Kelly Mc » February 25th, 2014, 7:42 pm

Kfen..

Heat&Fluids is conservative first aid protocol

If the snake has a protozoan or bacterial load that is making him ill, it wont resolve on its own without the right med. If he has an infection he will keep regurgitating his meals, putting his whole system under duress. If he is holding his carriage up and locomoting well it may be good to nip it in the bud before he gets weak.

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Re: snake regurge question

Post by BillMcGighan » February 26th, 2014, 5:09 pm

As usual, Kelly is spot on for herp help:
Heat&Fluids is conservative first aid protocol


Of course, a vet is always best, if convenient.

That said, most old keepers must admit to a certain amount of quacking, because for years herp vets were only available to zoos.


What I would do:
I keep another cool temp species, Eastern Fox Snakes, and when a weakness is suspected (and right out of brumation for a month) I have a small spot lamp in a corner, adjusting the bulb wattage so it provides a tiny amount of heat on the animals dorsal surface (not heat tape) in a small area. If the animal needs this it'll start basking there.

Additionally, for short term, I would wait 2 weeks at to let the stomach stabilize, and I'd give it just a couple thawed pinks at first, slicing two to four longitudinal slits in the skin of the pink. These incredibly small meals for a 30 inch snake can "prime the pump".


Have you tested the snake for endoparasites (just recieved the animal from elsewhere, wild caught, tiny black flies in your snake room?)

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Re: snake regurge question

Post by Kfen » February 26th, 2014, 6:15 pm

Thanks for the ideas. It did drink immediately upon being put back in its cage, but I didn't use pedialyte-will keep on hand from now on.

It has always had a small basking area that it, as well as the other one that is set up identically, use.

I am leery about vets having had a couple negative experiences in the past. The one I am considering, however, only treats exotics, so maybe I will have better luck.

Endoparasites are unlikely, but always a possibility. What is the story with the flies?

What would happen if food had spoiled in its stomach?

My current plan is to raise the night time temps, let is sit for 2-3 weeks (unless is appears worse sooner) and try another small meal. If it regurges again I'm off to the vet.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: snake regurge question

Post by Kelly Mc » February 26th, 2014, 7:07 pm

Putrefication of a food bolus would mean a massive bloom of bacteria. Sometimes the abdomen will feel bloated,or flaccid, and you may feel pockets of methane gurgling with your fingertips.

Bill should be on soon with more. The flies, if its what Im suspecting he is broaching will make for some important insight on here.

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Re: snake regurge question

Post by BillMcGighan » February 26th, 2014, 8:46 pm

Endoparasites are unlikely, but always a possibility. What is the story with the flies?
The only way to know for sure is testing. A fecal sample can be done by any vet office if you tell them to look for a wide spectrum of parasites. Bacteria and Protozoa are also suspect.

Many here experience little black flies in the reptile room. Without looking closely they seem like fruit flies. Usually in our world, they are Sphaerocerid Flies, or Dung Flies. I’m not aware of any studies, but there is some good circumstantial anecdotal evidence that, because the crawl on snake feces, they may be pick up ova of Pin Worms. If this is true, a single animal in a collection with Pin Worms could be the source for a whole collection infection vectored by flies. Pin Worms are a direct parasite so they need no intermediate host like a snail or a Deer Mouse.


I get them in numbers when I put out egg laying boxes with damp sphagnum. They need moisture. Some are called “Drain Flies”.

My current plan is to raise the night time temps, let is sit for 2-3 weeks (unless is appears worse sooner) and try another small meal. If it regurges again I'm off to the vet.
Sounds like a plan.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

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Re: snake regurge question

Post by Kfen » February 27th, 2014, 6:07 am

Kelly Mc wrote:Putrefication of a food bolus would mean a massive bloom of bacteria. Sometimes the abdomen will feel bloated,or flaccid, and you may feel pockets of methane gurgling with your fingertips.
If that is the case, could it resolve on its own, or would it need anitbiotics to fight off the excess bacteria?

Because I keep a lot of humidity loving herps, I do get little black flies. Whether they are scuttle flies, fungus gnats, or dung flies, I have no idea. And from what your saying, it sounds like it doesnt matter. I had no idea there is some thought that they are vectors.

Thanks again, I will certainly keep you all updated. There are not many people that I am aware of working with this species, so I am very concerned and trying to do my best.

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Re: snake regurge question

Post by BillMcGighan » February 27th, 2014, 7:47 am

There are lots of regurg reasons, so this may be "much ado about nothing" is probably going away for you quickly and on it's own.
Let's hope.


I had no idea there is some thought that they are vectors.

Caution - this is all annecdotal:

A credible private keeper told me he started having multiple regurges in a few cages of long time captives. After checking the husbandry care twice and found no change, the vet found a Pin and Lung Worms (both direct).
The keeper fed only frozen thawed. He had brought in a few adult "captive born" animals into his collection in the past year, but they were in their own cages, and this keeper was very fastidious about cleaning, isolating, and avoiding cross contamination. The vet and the keeper cautiously concluded little black flies that regularly crawled on the fresh poop became very suspect as the carriers of the worm eggs.

If they are vectors, of course the fly itself is harmless, but if one cage gets contaminated from an outside source, it seems plausible that the spread of protozoa or direct endoparasites could be spread by the flies.

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Re: snake regurge question

Post by Kfen » March 25th, 2014, 4:29 pm

So the snake that was regurging did it again so I brought it to the vet. While we were examining the snake there, we noticed what I am going to call a slight anomaly on the side of that snake about 5 inches down. We thought it could be an injury from when the snake got out (I have a cat that was staring at it when found). It could have also always been there and I never noticed- it was slight. We decided I would bring the snake home and watch it eat. If the meal didn't pass that spot, we knew where the problem was. I brought it home and fed it the smallest pinkie I had. The mouse passed the spot with no problem and I watched the snake regurge an hour later.

In the mean time, my other rein rat snake developed a slightly swollen abdomen, but was still eating and defecating normally. I brought that snake to the vet at the same time and it was prescribed a course of antibiotics (amikacin every 3 days for 7 doses) in case of some infection while we had it tested for crypto. Crypto came back negative and I'm not really sure if the swelling MAY look a little better about halfway through antibiotic treatment.

Back to the regurging snake, the Vet's idea now is to perform a contrast study, force feeding barium and taking a radiograph to look at digestive system. The cost will be $460 and will only be diagnostic, and only POSSIBLY find the cause. After spending $450 already on the first visit, I am not really prepared to go that route. So here are my options as I see them. What do you all think?

Leave the snake alone and keep trying every 2 weeks in hopes that it resolves itself.
Give it a course of antibiotics (I have enough from the other snake) hoping its some kind of bacterial infection
Panacur it just in case its worms of some kind.
Tube feed it a slurry hoping for some reason it wont regurge that.

The snake still looks outwardly healthy, and has only lost ~4 grams since I weighed it last in the beginning of January. It is currently 50 grams. The last meal it kept down was prior to it escaping, in the middle of January.
Temps are perfect, I discussed this at length with the vet who has actually bred this species in the past. And I am also going to get a mouse from a totally different supplier to rule that out, even though I have fed it from 2 different ones already.
Thanks for any input

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 25th, 2014, 4:44 pm

Did you already have a regular x ray done?

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 25th, 2014, 5:33 pm

I dont think the mouse source is the problem (as far as trying different mice) There is a source I would never use but that would be an imo/pm. I also wouldnt risk more regurgs.

The answer to your question depends on how invasive you are willing to be. All diagnostic tools are just that - diagnostic. If etiology is determined, then there is the decision of whether to go on to your vets course of recommended treatment.

So it really depends on what you are willing to do if something is found, and the prognosis of your Doc.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kfen » March 25th, 2014, 5:50 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:I dont think the mouse source is the problem (as far as trying different mice) There is a source I would never use but that would be an imo/pm. I also wouldnt risk more regurgs.
.
I don't either, but I thought I might try it in the very slim chance it was. Just like I don't really think its a parasite issue either, but it would be a relative easy option to try, just to rule it out. I don't generally like treating things with any medication just because, but my options are becoming limited.
Kelly Mc wrote:Did you already have a regular x ray done?
I didn't. The vet had sort of mentioned it during the visit but said something like I would have to leave the snake there, and I wasn't going to be able to make it back there in the following days.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 25th, 2014, 5:55 pm

Kfen less invasive, low impact home care is an ethical option your vet may be open to but thats between him and you, and what you observe with your animal. I have talked about tube feeding on many threads. I have found that a whole food bolus is easily regurged and I have never had a snake vomit a slurry but that being said, if there is a mechanical obstruction or complex injury in the first quadrant of the snakes body it is possible he could, and aspirate it.

An xray may be a compromise to the barium you could talk about with your vet.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 25th, 2014, 6:22 pm

Im also with you on the unprescribed meds - meds have their place but they are not health tonics and knowing that A) the med may be shooting a complete blank as far as targeting an organism and B) there is the very real risk of creating superinfections and intestinal flora deficits as well as causing damage to kidneys.

So by home care I mean encouraging a low stress perfect on point environs with plenty of fluids and easy caloric support if Possible.

Keep us posted I hope it all works out.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by BillMcGighan » March 27th, 2014, 8:33 am

Sorry to see the recurrence in such a unique snake. Hope it gets resolved.



Same disclaimer: I am not a vet, just “Joe shit the rag man” off the street, and I’m approaching this only as I would myself.



More questions (and please don’t be offended if I ask the obvious):
Was the vet a reptile vet?
Did he/she check for smaller gut trouble makers (protozoa), such as amoebae (Entamoeba invadens)?


Kfen
In the mean time, my other rein rat snake developed a slightly swollen abdomen,
This is a common symptom of an enteritis cause by protozoa.

Do you keep turtles?



Kfen
Panacur it just in case its worms of some kind.
Kelly
I dont think the mouse source is the problem (as far as trying different mice)
Im also with you on the unprescribed meds - meds have their place but they are not health tonics and knowing that A) the med may be shooting a complete blank as far as targeting an organism and B) there is the very real risk of creating superinfections and intestinal flora deficits as well as causing damage to kidneys.
I agree with this in principle, and generally always give just do to a real vet, but I have to make exception to fenbendazole (Panacur), and to a lesser degree metronidazole (Flagyl).


Fenbendazole is a broad spectrum wormer (not too good on cestodes), and has to be severly overdosed to hurt a reptile. I’ve used it prophylactically for the past 15 years on my entire collection, one treatment (2 minimum dosings 14 days apart) per year at minimum dose, and have never lost an animal to it. Several of these animals are pushing 20 years old.

Metronidazole, I did the same when I kept turtles, or an animal was new in the collection from whatever source (again minimum dose).
On almost a separate not, after a treatment of Flagyl, I started adding probiotics to the food to help restore the healthy gut flora.



edited PS:
If I gave the animal any food it would be a watered down slurry of pinky from a pinky pump.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 27th, 2014, 10:16 am

I'm glad you knocked Bill. Its often hard for me to resist the temptation to include specifics esp when it comes to the use of some you mentioned, but I sort of have to.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kfen » March 27th, 2014, 5:38 pm

Bill, no offense taken whatsoever. You can ask all the questions you like.
He traveled over an hour to this particular vet because he was a past president of the ARAV, so he should know what he is doing, but I have not had any experience with him prior.

I keep Geoemyda spengleri and one Mississippi mud turtle. Would this be another possible case of the fly vectors?
This is a common symptom of an enteritis cause by protozoa.
You are the first person to tell me this. I'm surprised the vet did not mention it. The fecal from the swollen abdomen snake was only tested for crypto. The other snake was not tested for any parasites. It has not defecated because it has not eaten, and the vet did not think a cloacal wash was going to show anything because it had been along time since it had defecated. The vet was going to panacur it to be on the safe side before we got the idea it could be an injury.

Have you seen protozoa cause regurges without swollen abdomens?

Thanks again

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 27th, 2014, 7:26 pm

I think Bill would agree that the variables involved in regurgitation defy a pat, diagnostically blind answer.

I have found very often that protozoic infections incite non feeding. Fast regurges (within 24 hours before assimilation even reaches bowels) usually warrant ruling out a mechanical cause, injury, mass.

There can also be a combination of causes, or even parasitic, viral, bacterial or injury to other organs/systems.

Basically regurgitation, is the bodies way of ridding itself of food it is incapable of processing.

A swollen or non swollen abdomen and regurgitation are not necessarily linked, by any means.

These things are tricky to address with only descriptions, and a missing historical factor ie; what could have incurred, or influenced condition during the snakes escaped period.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 27th, 2014, 7:50 pm

Your vet sounds Good - remember that he has had in his hands many cases and can discern the subtleties of what he has seen. Sometimes these are subclinical and difficult to describe, just like any specialist physician. Energy levels, strength, all are clues to a good vet that point him to his next investigative move.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by BillMcGighan » March 27th, 2014, 8:09 pm

he was a past president of the ARAV,
Those are probably the best credentials you can have for our reptile world. I’m sure you’re in good hands.


I keep Geoemyda spengleri and one Mississippi mud turtle. Would this be another possible case of the fly vectors?
The reason I asked is because most snake guts are full of protozoa without problem, but Entamoeba invadens is of serious significance. It lives in the guts of water turtles, crocodilians, even Gartersnakes, Watersnakes, and “Getulus” Kings, usually without harm. One of these higher risk carriers in a collection can increase the probability of infecting other snakes, tortoises, and lizards. It can be as simple as picking up a wet turtle, then handling an unresistant snake (or its water bowl) without washing your hands.


With this amoebic infection, the pre-swollen as well as swollen stages can cause regurge.
I sure your vet took this into consideration.


(but again for my collection, I’d have a cloaca wash checked for cysts with multiple nuclei (an indicator of “invadens”), just because this is not super rare in captive collections.


If “invadens” is present, bad news /good news:
Bad news is it is often fatal if untreated.
Good news is that it is usually controlled with Flagyl.


Google "Entamoeba invadens reptile".
A good start is http://www.petmd.com/reptile/conditions ... _amebiasis

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Kelly Mc
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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 27th, 2014, 8:37 pm

Turtle/aquatics care and terrestrial reptile care - the mystery link of illness and mortality in collections - even a famous beloved icon of a place had a cross species exhibit in the old days that resulted in a health crises.

Protocols between care routines best separated by a wide gulf of precaution or at least the tight snap of latex or nitrile.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 27th, 2014, 11:39 pm

Kfen I hope all of our discussion does not cause you to discount recommendation that some interior whole body imaging was suggested as next step.

With a small snake that was out that long, whether he refused food after, or in your case regurged (especially so shortly after eating) it was not an arbitrary suggestion. The snake did perhaps show visible hint of physical incident.

There is a tendency to gravitate toward methodologies that somehow seem more accessable, that make internet discussions of this kind extremely spotty, compared to the actual live animal being evaluated in person, especially by someone who is pretty much the best at it to be found.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kfen » March 28th, 2014, 8:30 am

Kelly Mc wrote:Kfen I hope all of our discussion does not cause you to discount recommendation that some interior whole body imaging was suggested as next step.

With a small snake that was out that long, whether he refused food after, or in your case regurged (especially so shortly after eating) it was not an arbitrary suggestion. The snake did perhaps show visible hint of physical incident.

There is a tendency to gravitate toward methodologies that somehow seem more accessable, that make internet discussions of this kind extremely spotty, compared to the actual live animal being evaluated in person, especially by someone who is pretty much the best at it to be found.
Kelly, I am not discounting that recommendation based on this discussion. I am taking everything in, including conversations I have had with other experienced herp keeper friends. It is unfortunate that it has come to this, but I am now looking at everything from a cost benefit analysis. I'm sure the contrast study recommended by the vet is a very good next step for the snake. But I also have to take into account the best step financially as well. If I knew the contrast study was going to definitely find a solution, or if I knew what I was going to be in for AFTER the results of that expensive test, than I would be more likely to take the plunge. I have already spent $450 and possibly haven't resolved anything with either snake. A line has to be drawn somewhere. Sorry if I am taking this into an ethical and moral discussion about how much care we as keepers are expected/required to give when we decide to bring other lives into our responsibility. Trust me when I say none of this has been an easy decision for me and I have lost sleep over it.

The vet actually gave me a call today to see how things were progressing. I did ask about a general xray. He didn't discount it, but also didnt sound optimistic about that showing anything. SO I haven't made a decision about how to proceed with the regurging snake. The one with the swollen abdomen will finish its course of antibiotics. If the swelling is still there, I will feed it and then have the resulting fecal tested.

Thanks again for all the comments. I will continue to keep you updated.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 28th, 2014, 10:09 am

Absolutely no judgment here Kfen, triaging circumstances is unavoidable, often. This thread is vivid with your engaged, competent focus.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » March 28th, 2014, 2:42 pm

A thing that might be added as an note, is that many organisms that are capable of becoming an opportunistic pathogen, inc protozoan life, flourish at cooler temps.

With species where cooler ambients are customary I still nonetheless provide a firm option area of heat for the animal to repose during digestion, and as a provisional prophylaxis against compromise of condition. It will be used instinctively if needed and does no harm as long as space values and air flow can maintain their ambient lowers.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kfen » March 28th, 2014, 3:44 pm

Yeah I have definitely learned the hard way that I kept them too cold. There is not much info out there about them so I was going by their behavior. They were eating and defecating normally at pretty low temps. But I guess I pushed the limit just a little too far. The one snake was not purposeful as I did not want it to escape.

I meant to reply to this before:
A swollen or non swollen abdomen and regurgitation are not necessarily linked, by any means
The reason I had asked is if the regurging snake is not ill because of injury, then it is reasonable to assume both snakes are being afflicted by the same nasty. And I was curious if Bill's suggestion of Entamoeba invadens caused different symptoms that the 2 snakes could be exhibiting.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by dbh » March 29th, 2014, 4:52 am

If you could post pictures of both snakes it would be helpful.
If we could see the swelling in the other snake it might help. The subtle swelling caused by protozoans is sometimes recognizable, whether it is Trichomonas or an Amoeba. Is the snake defecating anything, any mucous looking liquid? A picture of that would help too.

Did the Vet do a cloacal culture/smear?

I believe Bill and Kelly's advice is spot on.

I would treat them both with Flagyl and then follow up with Panacur. If you are looking to conserve cost and not needing to know what exactly is wrong this is your best bet. If that treatment works you may want to Flagyl your entire collection and disinfect all enclosures. A protocol to reduce transmission between the turtles and all your other captives should be developed also.

Have you provided a good heat and basking spot and does the snake use it?
Have you set up the sick snakes on newspaper substrate?
Disclaimer: I am not a Vet.

David

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kfen » March 30th, 2014, 4:34 pm

The snake with the swelling was eating and defecating normally. I have not fed it since I started the amikacin per the vet's advice. I just gave it the 6th of 7 doses and I don't think it looks any better. Maybe slightly but I would have thought by now it should be gone if the antibiotics were working. We only checked for crypto with that snake because he had to send out the fecal specifically for that. I will have a fecal done as soon as I feed it after the antibiotics. Here are 2 pics of the snake:

Image

Image

Both snakes have a basking area and use it like they always have.
There is no mucous excrement from either snake.

Something I don't think I have mentioned, I did have a snake last year that was never right from the moment I got it. Regurged often and eventually died (in November). It had mucous like things in its cage. I could never determine which end they came out of. I knew something was wrong and always dealt with that snake last, no matter what I was doing. But it was in the same room as my currently ailing snakes.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by dbh » April 3rd, 2014, 9:38 am

Sorry, I just saw this pic. I think the swelling is consistent with a probable protozoan problem.
You should get a fecal smear done, not a float. I think I would treat with Flagyl asap.
Of course, I am not a Vet. I have never seen Flagyl do harm when administered correctly.
If you have access to a microscope Thichomonas is very easily seen.

I would also suggest moving the snakes to a sterile type cage that can be disinfected. Your very nice cage will need to be disinfected also if you are going to use it again.

David

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by jayder85 » April 5th, 2014, 8:23 am

One thing that I may mention since sterilization was brought up. I know that ammonia is the recommended agent for Crypto. What is acceptable treatment for other protozoa? It seems that I read somewhere that undiluted peroxide is another acceptable agent.

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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » April 5th, 2014, 5:41 pm

When we think of disinfection we almost always think of the different agents we mostly use, bleach, ammonia, nolvasan, hydrogen peroxide. But classified as disinfection methods are also Heat, UV, and Dessication. There are other types used requiring specialized equipments but Chemical Agent, Heat, UV and Dessication are the ones we have in our grasp most practically.

Each chemical agent has its strengths and drawbacks. The most powerful high level killers like formaldehyde and rapicide, cant be used for our purposes.

To just answer your question, a strong bleach solution with water temps of 130+ which is usually achievable in a home setting if your water heater is set at its peak, will kill a large scope of microbial life, including protozoans. Contact must last at least 10 minutes and the surfaces must be clean of debri before disinfecting. There is nothing wrong with a HOT overkill rinse, at least thats what I feel comfortable with.

Drying in Direct Sunlight adds 2 other methods of disinfection - UV and Dessication. UV and Dessication have been proven to destroy the cysts, and together you have a very effective combo.

But its only as effective as meticulous you are, and always beginning with prepped, clean surface areas and solid contact and duration.

Something I learned from Monklet is, when doing your rough clean out, of sub, etc Do Not use a shop vac in infected area/cage in the vicinity of your collection, it will blow oocysts all over.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: snake regurge question- update, what would you do?

Post by Kelly Mc » April 5th, 2014, 5:59 pm

Monklet if you read this, I want you to know that ever since you posted about the shop vac hazard, I retired my shop vac use indoors at work, entirely, and I loved that thing, so much I named her Honey. But I get boarders upstairs in the same vicinity of my permanent display guys whom are precious to me. So thanks for the tip :thumb:

Kfen
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Re: snake regurge question- what would you do?-another updat

Post by Kfen » May 12th, 2014, 10:15 am

The snake with the swollen midsection- had it tested for crypto a second time just to be sure, negative. Had a fecal smear and float done, totally clean. The swelling has gone down considerably, maybe even totally. The snake has continued to eat and has also shed. Have no idea what happened or why its getting better.

The snake that was regurging- I left it alone for another couple of weeks and decided to try feeding it one more time. It kept down a very small pinkie. Fed it another very small pinkie about 10 days later and it kept that down. Went through a shed cycle and I just fed it today. Keeping my fingers crossed. Also not sure what happened, I am leaning toward an injury of some sort while it was out.

Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions.

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justinm
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Re: snake regurge question- what would you do?-another updat

Post by justinm » May 13th, 2014, 11:26 am

I've been using Chlorhexadine. This is what my vet recommends that I clean my snake room with especially since I have little boys that like to spend time in the snake room with me. BTW my local vet, is responsible for the rewrite of the Reptile Veterinary Medicine & Surgery book originally by Dr. Mader. Yes I know I'm lucky.

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gbin
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Re: snake regurge question- what would you do?-another updat

Post by gbin » May 13th, 2014, 1:43 pm

justinm wrote:... BTW my local vet, is responsible for the rewrite of the Reptile Veterinary Medicine & Surgery book originally by Dr. Mader. Yes I know I'm lucky.
Nice! :thumb: Who is that? When I lived in Gainesville, FL I used to take my snakes to John Rossi in Jacksonville - and despite the 1 1/2-hour drive each way I considered myself lucky, too. ;) Good herp vets can be hard to find, and great ones, well,... "lucky" is definitely the word for it.

Gerry

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justinm
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Re: snake regurge question- what would you do?-another updat

Post by justinm » May 14th, 2014, 10:20 am

gbin wrote:
justinm wrote:... BTW my local vet, is responsible for the rewrite of the Reptile Veterinary Medicine & Surgery book originally by Dr. Mader. Yes I know I'm lucky.
Nice! :thumb: Who is that? When I lived in Gainesville, FL I used to take my snakes to John Rossi in Jacksonville - and despite the 1 1/2-hour drive each way I considered myself lucky, too. ;) Good herp vets can be hard to find, and great ones, well,... "lucky" is definitely the word for it.

Gerry

The vet I usually see is Dr. Nicole, she's the second one on this page.
http://www.pekinanimalhospital.com/staff.html

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