rattle snake venom in eye?

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pahothand
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Joined: January 30th, 2014, 3:40 pm
Location: Milton Pennsylvania

rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by pahothand »

Had a a new atrox in a quarantine cage with a locked screen lid strike strait up at the screen and squirt a dose of venom in my eye and mouth on Thursday night. I rinsed it with normal saline and washed out my mouth. Didn't think it was going to be a big deal until my eye got really blood shot and swollen. So I went to the ER all they did was put a device into my eye to rinse it with a whole liter on normal saline. and sent me home. At that point I felt fine other than my eye burned.
The next morning I woke up nauseated and had a pretty good headache. I went to a follow-up appointment with my eye doctor he said the venom had prob. just irritated the eye and sent me home with drops and said follow up with my primary care physician for the headache and nausea and come back sat morning for a re check with the eye doctor.
So I go home call my doctor and the secretary says I will talk to him and get back to you. So I go home and go to bed. Wake up 5 hours later the doctor had called and wanted to see me but his office is now closed. So I go back to bed still having the pain and nausea. I have quite a restless night and the nausea get s worse overnight.
Saturday I wake up feeling much better less of a headache and less nausea. I go to the follow-up with the eye doctor and as I am sitting in the chair after the exam I pass out and go into convulsions. So they transport me to the ER. I have a different doctor than the night visit 2 days prior. He seems to know a little more about snake venom. after a few hours of observation some labs and such he come to the conclusion that I was envenomated enough to make me sick but not enough that anivenom is needed he says I may feel this way for a few weeks and sends me home.
Today I have no pain my guts feel a little off but no nausea. Has anyone ever heard of anyone having a reaction to rattlesnake venom in their eye before?
simus343
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by simus343 »

If the venom gets behind the eye and manages to somehow enter the bloodstream then is makes perfect sense to have reactions to it. I have never actually heard of this before and I only know one venomous keeper that uses front sliding cages with solid tops. On most surfaces such as the skin and inside of the mouth it normally won't be a big issue such as this was for you, unless there is open cuts. So again, and I certainly don't know for sure, is it somehow got into your bloodstream if/when the venom drained towards the back/bottom of your eye socket. Luckily it was not enough to cause the need for anti-venom, or it could have been far worse than it was for having entered from and affected such a sensitive and vital area.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Kelly Mc »

Sounds like a medical bummer. just be thankful your kid wasnt standing next to you and the tank. Note to self maybe huh.
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BillMcGighan
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by BillMcGighan »

Not much sympathy here.

F#@% with da bull - yas git da horns.
pahothand
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Joined: January 30th, 2014, 3:40 pm
Location: Milton Pennsylvania

Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by pahothand »

Thank God I am not looking for your or anyone else's sympathy Bill. I posted to see if anyone else had expertise or experience to help me you seem to have neither so move on
VICtort
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Location: AZ.

Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by VICtort »

Dear Pahothand,

That is a serious and unusual situation, and you are probably anxious...

Given the lack of experience many US Physicians have with envenomations, particularly in the eye, I would encourage you to seek other opinions if you have any doubt you are getting the best care. Certain facilities have Staff members with a real interest in this somewhat esoteric aspect of medicine.

If I were admitted, I would insist my Doctor consult with poison control in Arizona and perhaps Loma Linda U. in CA. Given your situation, maybe Doctors in South Africa or elsewhere where spitting (Naja sp.) cobras are common might be worth consulting? I realize the venoms are different, but maybe the experienced SA MD's would have something to offer..?

Envenomations are truly frightening, but some attempted remedies are equally so...I sure would want to know I had the best practitioners reviewing my case. Especially if mucking about in ones eye.

Good luck and I hope all who read this take heed and consider how this could be avoided. With C. atrox being so abundant, maybe you can find a calmer specimen..?

Vic
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Kelly Mc
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Kelly Mc »

As Vick says. Note the repeated logic of seeking Medical Advice and other professional agencies.

And asking yourself how it could have been avoided.

Getting on Bill for his comment means you didn't read between the lines, posting about advice re: a venom shot to the eye, even on a forum as good as this - because of guys like Vic and Bill, has lines of its own to read between and what I and perhaps others pick up is that your motive was iffy, and quite frankly it doesn't seem surprising.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Kelly Mc »

BillMcGighan wrote:Not much sympathy here.

F#@% with da bull - yas git da horns.

Hey Bill a really ampy monitor in a mesh holding container crapped a stream of urates straight into my nose and mouth once while I was cutting his nails from below.

My bad.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Kelly Mc »

Cody I hope you are alright. You have a daughter who is certain she has the coolest Dad ever, and its none of my business but I think it rocks when girl children are encouraged to be herpers or karate experts or drummers or anything they want and I had a cool Dad too. He died recently and luckily not when I was a kid.

I just hope your enthusiasm for crotes, especially handling them, (Pennsylvania Hot Handler?) doesn't exceed your judgment and practices. No matter what you Say, she is absorbing your every move.

I know its none of my business, so you can rip on me if you want and I will understand.
pahothand
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Joined: January 30th, 2014, 3:40 pm
Location: Milton Pennsylvania

Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by pahothand »

No kelly you are spot on. I am normally on my A game when handling any snake. I make excuses for myself. It was late at night and was doing a quick walkthrough the snake building and noticed a regurgitate mouse that needed removed and as I reached down to slide open the screen door the snake struck. I am taking stock of some of my ways I have done things that might need to backpage be done differently. You are also right that my girls absorb my habits for how I do things.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Kelly Mc »

I hope you make a full recovery and I'm glad it isn't getting worse, I would imagine it could have and it sounds really odd and dangerous, with the eye.
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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Bryan Hamilton »

I was envenomated about a year ago and it was without question the worst experience of my life. The extreme pain, headaches, nausea, and vomiting were bad but the nightmares were worse. For several nights I dreamed about my kids being bitten. I remember waking up in tears after one of those dreams. They were so real. Probably the drugs....

My keeping used to be pretty "loose" until I had kids. It still is "loose" by zoo standards but I did invest in locking, glass front cages. And I keep them high on shelves. That was money well spent for me.

The eye thing is weird. I've never heard of it but it sounds like you were envenomated. I've had much milder reactions to venom on my skin. Very short term irritation and swelling unlike your experience. Luckily you didn't need antivenom and a hospital stay because WOW. Talk about some money. That kind of cheddar makes an investment in good cages seem really cheap.

Did you have any lasting effects on your eye? Keep in mind that now that you've been exposed to venom, you could have an allergic reaction that could make a future envenomation much worse.
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Fieldnotes
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Fieldnotes »

Thanks for posting that, I have not heard of Rattler venom in the eye, but after reading what happened im going to be more cautious of rattler spit.
pahothand
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Joined: January 30th, 2014, 3:40 pm
Location: Milton Pennsylvania

Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by pahothand »

I have had no other ill effects since the last inscedent. I do worry about my sensitivity to atrox venom now. The strange thing is. The atrox in questions has sprayed venom several times since then usually during shifting from one place to another for cage cleaning. I got this fella because of his beautiful pastel color to breed with another pastel female I have. So I really hate to get rid of him.
Jimi
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Joined: December 3rd, 2010, 12:06 pm

Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Jimi »

People like to characterize species A as mellow, or species B as spastic. While there's plenty of general truth to some of that, individuals also vary widely in temperament. Specifics matter. Sounds like you've got yourself a real hot pistol there. Even for an atrox.

Since this particular animal seems important to you - have you considered a shift box and/or eye protection? Or is the animal new to captivity, and you expect he'll chill out after a year or so in your care?

Cheers,
Jimi
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Eric East
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Location: Greenwood, AR

Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Eric East »

I got venom in my eye a couple of years ago while herping in Texas. I don't recall if it was a WDB or a black tail, but it wasn't a big deal in my case. Nothing more than minor irritation.
VICtort
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by VICtort »

This "products of snake husbandry " in the eye seems so unlikely, yet at least two of Ye have had venom, and another unfortunate fellow some time ago had a frightening infection from a trace of fecal (?) matter in his eye while cage cleaning. I wear glasses, and I have been sprayed with varying noxious substances while cage cleaning over the years, and the glasses may have saved me unlike my less lucky herp keeping brethren... If I were a zoo curator, I really might make it required to wear shop goggles/eye protection for keepers working with the herp collection. One may go for years without an exposure or malady, but when it happens, a real scary event that is largely preventible I think. It scares me silly thinking of damage to my eyes.

Good luck and be safe, Vic
Saint
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Re: rattle snake venom in eye?

Post by Saint »

Wow, really glad to hear you are doing ok! As you know we must always be careful handling hots but as far as Bill's comment went I disagree. There are lots of safe hots handlers out there and just because you own one doesn't mean you will get hit. I own 3 rattlers and no one short of God himself could convince me to get rid of them. It's all a matter of safe handling. I don't know about screen top enclosures though. I have heard of keepers catching a fang through the screen so be careful with that. Mine are all in sliding glass front locking hots cages. As for a rattler that sprays venom that is a concerning thought... I would def wear facial protection with that little beastie. My rattlers are almost always very docile and on days when they are aggressive I don't even open the terrarium unless I have to. Anyway thanks for the post on the Crotalus, it's always good to hear from other crot keepers!
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