It is currently October 22nd, 2017, 10:53 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 12th, 2014, 1:55 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
You bring up some cool points Simus.

It is not so much the Origin of artifact and surface values, but how they replicate what is a biome reality to the animal.

That was one of the misidentified items of contention that was tossed around in the thread mentioned.

It is like a blue print, that started long before our industrial age and encroachment.

A corregated piece of tin, and a bark sleeve have much in common in crevice contact and tactility. Thermally the tin even has some added spice, and has become an appropriated range reality to snakes in our proxy.

It is like a baobab tree, and the inhabitants of it. In zoo settings you may not be able to have the actual Baobab Tree, but understanding it contextually allows the replication of its resources to be created for the species that has evolved in its niche there.

An argument about plastic wasnt the Plastic - it was the limitations of its use, and its anthropocentrically focused convieniency and cost, outweighing its deficets, which do exist. Nothing is perfect, even if its easy. And often can be made better with a few added details.

Small details sometimes are only small if looked at briefly. I have a group of lacertas, and one would think any rock would do but they definately show a preference for a certain surface texture. Unfortunately what they like best is a pain to clean, but they are special, and an insular sp and so i give it to them.

On my multifasciatas "surface' level I have a matrix of wood mostly cork cause its so toothy and amenable, but when he is on his rock structures he exhibits a completely different mode, especially when it comes to Edges. He is fully absorbed by edges, I love to watch.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 12th, 2014, 2:17 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 11:13 pm
Posts: 2385
Location: Greater Houston TX Area
Kelly Mc wrote:
An argument about plastic wasnt the Plastic - it was the limitations of its use, and its anthropocentrically focused convieniency and cost, outweighing its deficets, which do exist.


One of those drawbacks is that much of what's available is transparent/translucent, and as another poster mentioned, I too have found myself spray-painting clear plastic cups/lids for more "secure" hide boxes.

However, the transparency has also allowed me to observe some pretty interesting behavior, such as what I call a "thigmotaxis pose," wherein my banded geckos will elevate their bodies and arch their backs so as to make contact with the "roof" of their hides sometimes. I think they like that contact as it makes them feel more "snug and secure." This has also been hypothesized as a thermoregulatory function in nature (absorbing some of the warmth from a cover object).


Top
 Profile WWW 
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 12th, 2014, 3:19 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
Yes - your ability to see them in privacy has created a lens.

I think too over time, favored tactility and the perimeters of the secure hide even surpass it being completely dark.

When I have recieved cramp caged rescues that are nervous and strike at every motion I have found it much more useful to enable this env strategy while making sure the boa /python has the ability to See Out ie a vantage point. Covering the cage to make it completely dark is non therapeutic = accomplishes nothing, if the goal is for the snake to actually stop dysphorically reacting to visual range.

The answer to such sad captive effects isnt more of the same aberrant conditions imo.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 12th, 2014, 5:02 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
Chris if I may make a suggestion that you might enjoy - roughing up the sides of your plastic boxes or detailing them with something so they be easily climb able, and putting a thin shard of slate to deck the top, might result in even more behaviors and stationing options for the geckos. Shyly at first they will be drawn up to the warm slate - dashing away like frightened sprites at first if startled, but if you are patient they will position themselves on the slate in other typical thermal seeking poses, for ventris heat absorption. You could even just add another box fixed like that, next to one already there to keep your present status quo. A rock in the open like other lizards wont do the trick. They want to dash away and tuck under into hiding in one Quick flash. But they do bask. So detailing a favored hide as would a discreet hole in the topography works better for them. I hope you try it I think you will like it


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 13th, 2014, 1:56 pm 

Joined: March 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.
To add to this, a suggestion for animals that like cracks and crevices for some to try. I am taking this idea directly from this FR that I mentioned, so FR, if your reading this under a different user name or just browsing the forum, full credit goes to you :thumb:.

Take plywood and angle it to provide an open loose area for the intended animal and have it go all the way to a tight end that the animal can't fit, so as to allow it to fit as "snug" as it desires.

Make multiple levels on the same "item." This provides the top as a basking spot, and each layer down as a hiding spot with a different temperature gradient.

For my snakes, I would likely use this piece as a "cover board" and set it on the surface. For geckos, perhaps submerge it in a manner that allows the geckos to reach each level of the structure.

Another similar thing I have done is I have taken rock and ceramic manufactures reptile hides and submerged them into the sand and stuffed them full of sand with a tiny finger-dug cavity to allow my snakes to expand upon. This provides a rough surface and more humid retreat to assist with shedding.

Keeping excavator clay tied to this, or the use of clay in terrariums in general - clay would provide a good fixing material for such structures as I mentioned, allowing basically a cave to be formed within the substrate that is supported by rigid building pieces similar to a mine shaft. This would help prevent the collapse of hides should the substrate dry and crack or be loose and easily moved around by the terrarium inhabitant(s).

Also I saw something mentioned prior about a book. There are a lot of detailed books about designing vivaria. Only one is geared towards herps though, that I know of. Vivaria Designs by Jerry G. Walls. It is great at talking how to cure collected furnishing and substrate as well as how to build a cage, filter an aquatic system, and provides some pleasant looking setups, but to me it seems to be geared more towards the visual appeal in which a herp can survive.

It was also mentioned that not many people may have interest in buying a in depth herp-cage book that covers herp utility as well as visual appeal. I agree with this, as many keepers may not have the money or time to go the extra mile. So instead, what if someone or some people were to collaborate and produce a series of publically available articles, blog, or series of forum posts (of which I'd gladly contribute to ;) ) in their free time. Obviously no money to be gained, but if someone "struck gold" for a cage for a species, they could share the idea for others if they so desired. This would allow those that are interested to create an advanced terrarium, practical terrarium, visually appealing terrarium, or any combo of those, to do so. Just an idea.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 14th, 2014, 8:04 am 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
Re: FR... man I hate that guy he thinks he's me ....... its a joke, used to make the same one about Prince :roll:

But serious when I was new to internet I was asked on a thread if I knew him and I think it was meant in a deprecating tone, because the person who asked this I later saw had harsh things about him to say. Unknowingly I saw some compelling posts by FR here on the herping ethics thread and tried to pm him to ask him stuff, but he never answered.

I then came across some varanus input I found extremely engrossing by FR.

I think the environmental models experiment is a worthy endeavor but the only results that could accurately reveal effects would have to include biochemical and neurological measurements. Which does not discount FR ability to discern ophidian physical and psychological fitness.

I have tried to look at stuff every now and then on the other forum you speak of, but the format is cumbersome, don't like it.

I tried to find the heterodon environment thread but could not find my way through all the morph stuff and hair pulling.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 14th, 2014, 12:25 pm 

Joined: March 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.
Yeah, most of the new stuff in there is mostly a back and forth argument about stuff between him and some other person. When I was there I kept questions academic and it seemed to keep peace, now people are just there to rip into each other, one reason why I no longer participate there.

To find most of the good stuff you would have to dig through loads of people bashing FR and getting very defensive just because he doesn't stick keep Heterodon like one would keep a Pantherophis.

I decided while sitting in a swamp this morning that I am going to start copy pasting stuff that comes up in forum chats that I find interesting, useful, or new knowledge to me so that I can refer to it later, accurately. I also intend to back-track to find some stuff I have read in the past to get an accurate "re-use" of the info. This may help reveal some further info on this cage design / substrate (type and use) topic.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 14th, 2014, 2:10 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2293
If it's the same FR I'm thinking of, he's doubtless provided the folks at that other website with plenty of reason to bash him - as he did back when he participated here. All his narcissism would allow him to accept from other people was deferential, preferably downright worshipful, behavior, whereas he himself of course felt free to speak as derogatorily, sometimes even hatefully, as he wished about wildlife scientists and managers, and anyone else who ever contributed (even if just in his fanciful imagination) to the incredibly large chip he always carried on his shoulder. I'm convinced the guy was certifiable, and in clear need of treatment.

Sorry, Kelly, you know I think he had some valuable experience (especially with varanids) and maybe even insight to impart, but you also know I think whatever value he could have brought here was totally wasted by his out-of-control personality disorder, and the self-glorifying fantasies and maligning of others it routinely caused him to indulge in. We're all - myself included - a mixture of both positive and negative aspects, it's true, but it's sadly also true that in some cases the negative is just so pervasive that the positive isn't worth putting up with it. This website is much better off without him.

But maybe after he wandered away from here he did indeed seek treatment, and as a result has his problem under sufficient control to do more good than harm elsewhere?... If so, I'm happy for him and them. As a person who was sometimes specifically and virtually always professionally targeted by his craziness, though, you probably won't ever find me singing his praises nor sitting idly by while someone else does. Even someone else for whom I do have considerable respect and affection. ;)

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 14th, 2014, 2:42 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
This morning I actually read what you mean Dr B.

It was lost in it.

By the way thank you for liking my avatar. Another thing I didn't get, as Renee had been calling me Mr McMurphy when she's mad at me but not really. It took me awhile to get it.

Edit* adding - Gerry typing this post left out entire words, low battery. But i wanted to say is that basically yes i agree with you. Any veracity gets lost


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 14th, 2014, 2:47 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
Renee is a nurse by occupation.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 14th, 2014, 5:42 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
I would like to find a key for identifying rock types. Many have casual handles, which is one problem, and the world of rocks is so huge that its hard to find a place to begin. It would be an informing delight to know more about some of my peices.

Any suggestions ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 15th, 2014, 6:01 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2293
As long as you don't call her Nurse Ratched in reply, Kel, I reckon you two will be all right! ;)

There must be some nice rock guides out there, but I've never sought such and so can't advise. I'll be curious to see what advice others might have, though.

Before leaving the subject of FR I'll emphasize again that I do think it's a shame that he was the way he was here, and I do hope he's gotten at least somewhat better. If it's the same fellow and you manage to enjoy or learn from the things he writes in that other forum, simus, then as I said I'm happy for you both.

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 16th, 2014, 9:12 am 

Joined: March 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.
Don't get me wrong Gbin, I'm not in love with the guy haha. Although I didn't mention it I do find disdain in and dislike the way he comes across frequently, yet another reason I left those forums besides the out of control arguments. He just made a few points that I found no flaw in, decided to test, and turned out they worked great and for the better from what I myself had previously been doing. Based on your description I believe it is the same person haha, but he has been getting a little better, perhaps because he realized for more people to read what he has to say, he must tone the attitude down.


Kelly, do you collect or purchase your pieces? If you have any collected rocks you may be able to find a guide for your state or region of your state, and narrow it down from there. If purchased it may be a little harder, or easier, to track down the type. Contacting the company from which you purchased the rocks may work. If it was some group like Lowe's of Home Depot, it might be a little harder if they have suppliers that they don't want to put others in touch with for sales reasons.

Next time you go near a book store or local library it may be worth taking a look.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 16th, 2014, 10:07 am 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
Hi Simus, almost everything I have I have gotten from picking up, or a guy I get rock from, and most he knows where he gets them, as he deals, in quarries but there are some tropics stuff. Not sure.

I actually think it could be important to at least know and note rock types, for rock guys, because of patterns. It just one of those things that make everything more interesting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 16th, 2014, 10:39 am 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
Patterns in conformation. Not "aesthetic"

Also if a person or institution wishes to present an ideal of habitat relevance, for their own reasons or reasons of educational display, it may infuse more realistic impression. Even when people engage deeply in non biological hobbies it is often a value.

lizards that have evolved around volcanic rock, if they were displayed in a professional format with malayan driftwood to perch on, it may even look good but the display isnt as relevant.

As said before a detectable extra spark I have watched in various species around surface values that closely relate to biome reality.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 16th, 2014, 10:45 am 

Joined: March 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.
Is the tropics stuff rather porous? I just ask because when I lived on Okinawa every rock there was porous, as it was all dead coral - Okinawa being an emerged (opposite of submerged?) reef. Some of those rocks I found there, and disregarded as just rocks at the time, would have been amazing to use because they had hole systems (approx width of a US Quarter Dollar) running through them that would have been perfect for small tree frogs (about size of an adult Hyla femoralis), small geckos, and small snakes. Some were a little sharp, so I'd be hesitant with soft skinned animals such as most frogs and some reptiles, but others were rather smooth and good for such animals.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 16th, 2014, 10:58 am 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
Yes - but not all. I also do what you do, with the pieces, because they will be in an enclosed space of repeated contact, so any hazards in shape or form i safety out. Or if I need it to fit a certain way flush etc you know what i mean.


A favorite is 'Grotto Rock' for aquatic and marginally aquatic guys. Its coney and holey and every piece has great character.

Simus, you and everyone here almost probably finds this kind of work so pleasurable.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 16th, 2014, 11:36 am 

Joined: March 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.
Kelly Mc wrote:
Simus, you and everyone here almost probably finds this kind of work so pleasurable.


Well it is sort of what I do in my free time ;).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 17th, 2014, 11:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
If you could share some of the tools you like to use that would be cool. I have some files.

I'm always saving certain rock and cork even if I'm not using them, they are valuable to me because I know someday this one or that one will be what I am looking for. Like for one thing I have a collection of slate rock that is perfectly flat on a side. If they are completely flush flat, so as to not permit the smallest guy to try to squeeze under, they are an A* piece for some floors I want. Do you have little creeds like that? About your media?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 18th, 2014, 10:17 am 

Joined: March 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.
I don't have any tools besides files to sand down rough edges, other wise I just primitively bash rock pieces down until I get the size I want haha.

I have "flat" granite rocks that are perfectly flat on one surface, but when put them on the surface of a slightly damp sand/dirt substrate, my snakes are able to burrow through the sand or dirt and form a cavity that is exposed if I lift the rock, similar to what may be found under plywood AC or rocks when flipped in the field. I find that these rocks are preferred over just about any other "hide" that I provide, even though I merely have the rocks to provide textured edges to assist with shedding. It could be a combo of texture, humidity, and temps, as metal pieces that I have used have very close temperatures, but the texture is different. Also they dry, underneath in the cavity, faster than the rocks do.

I usually have most of my hides/furnishings utilized. I have a couple pieces that I have collected in the field that I thought may be good one day, but four years down the road I have not once had use for.

I will say I enjoy the ability to make floors from slate rocks. I did that for my bearded dragon and it really helps a great deal with cleaning and is more slightly than newspaper. Instead of scooping sand or washing some repti-carpet, I just lift out the 1-2 messy rocks, wash them off, and place them back.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 18th, 2014, 1:44 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 11:13 pm
Posts: 2385
Location: Greater Houston TX Area
simus343 wrote:
I have "flat" granite rocks that are perfectly flat on one surface, but when put them on the surface of a slightly damp sand/dirt substrate, my snakes are able to burrow through the sand or dirt and form a cavity that is exposed if I lift the rock, similar to what may be found under plywood AC or rocks when flipped in the field. I find that these rocks are preferred over just about any other "hide" that I provide, even though I merely have the rocks to provide textured edges to assist with shedding. It could be a combo of texture, humidity, and temps, as metal pieces that I have used have very close temperatures, but the texture is different. Also they dry, underneath in the cavity, faster than the rocks do.


I used to use rocks that I "inherited" from someone. That someone had glued little wooden blocks to the bottom of each rock, so that the rocks couldn't crush the occupant should the burrow collapse. Smaller rocks in place of wooden blocks would also work. They aren't seen, assuming your substrate is deep enough.


Top
 Profile WWW 
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 18th, 2014, 2:02 pm 

Joined: March 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.
chris_mcmartin wrote:
I used to use rocks that I "inherited" from someone. That someone had glued little wooden blocks to the bottom of each rock, so that the rocks couldn't crush the occupant should the burrow collapse. Smaller rocks in place of wooden blocks would also work. They aren't seen, assuming your substrate is deep enough.


Thanks I'll look into that. Don't have any blocks on hand right away but I can certainly cut some from extra 2x4s in my backyard. I havn't had any issues with this before though because with the surface area of the rock bottom, compaired to the size of the cavity my more burrowing-apt snakes make, the sand quite certainly provides the support on each side haha (its amusing once the size disparity has been seen). However, I'd really rather be safe than sorry.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: November 20th, 2014, 12:24 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 11th, 2010, 4:21 pm
Posts: 533
I must say I am a bit flummoxed by the commercial success of zoomed excavator...but then after seeing lichen accents and things in Ziploc bags at Petco(that could have easily been picked off a tree in a parking lot) I suppose anything is possible.

For those wanting the looks and benefits many good roadcuts are made of a similar clayey material. I don't think collecting substrate carries a huge risk...if you are worried about mites and the like you could bake it and store it for a year sealed up somewhere before using it.

I have also used a product known as Redart clay. It is a high iron containing clay that is used in ceramics-similar to terra cotta. It can be combined with sand/collected silt/soil , calcium or sodium bentonite, and the like to make great terrarium backgrounds that would likely have properties very similar to excavator. Hell-the color is pretty close too. A lot of clay suppliers also carry laterite which is similar. Anyway, your local ceramics shop should carry it...may take a bit of hunting but I found a supplier in Socal as well as one in Fresno.

I haven't played with epoxies but it is an interesting thing. I have found that using foam and clay to make backgrounds is a doable one. You can lay the foam down on the glass in terraces to help support the clay-which happens to stick happily to the foam. The trick with clay backgrounds is not to vary the moisture too much...since clay expands and contracts with changing moisture content. The lack of permanence in a clay background is actually a nice touch-they are extremely easy to rip out and redo. Sometimes the very top corners will start flaking away but they can be misted and bits tucked back there.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: March 20th, 2015, 1:21 pm 

Joined: June 17th, 2010, 4:51 am
Posts: 350
Location: CT
Just wanted to give a quick update regarding the excavator clay. I just rebuilt a tank with it, and made sure I really packed it down this time. Again this was for a bearded dragon of similiar size to the first one. The excavator clay is holding up better this time. Not as many small sand like pieces being loosened. Here is a pic:

Image

I realize the "burrow" is not very useful for the lizard, it was more there just as an example to customers that you can mold the substrate. I would have liked to do some more with it, but didnt want to crack open another bag. This was two 10 lb bags in an 18 x 24" exoterra.

I think the bearded dragons that I have put on excavator drink more. I might be making it up but it makes sense that the clay sucks the moisture out of the air. Just something to pay attention to if anyone decides to use this product.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: March 20th, 2015, 10:28 pm 

Joined: July 2nd, 2010, 5:48 pm
Posts: 682
Location: AZ.
Dear Simus343, please watch for PM, somewhat related but I decided "off topic" Thank you, Vic


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: March 21st, 2015, 7:02 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
Kfen wrote:
Just wanted to give a quick update regarding the excavator clay. I just rebuilt a tank with it, and made sure I really packed it down this time. Again this was for a bearded dragon of similiar size to the first one. The excavator clay is holding up better this time. Not as many small sand like pieces being loosened. Here is a pic:

Image

I realize the "burrow" is not very useful for the lizard, it was more there just as an example to customers that you can mold the substrate. I would have liked to do some more with it, but didnt want to crack open another bag. This was two 10 lb bags in an 18 x 24" exoterra.

I think the bearded dragons that I have put on excavator drink more. I might be making it up but it makes sense that the clay sucks the moisture out of the air. Just something to pay attention to if anyone decides to use this product.


Stretchin out a little gam. i love it when they do that. We forget how neat some species are, I like to remember with moments like this.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: April 23rd, 2017, 7:00 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
Ive been toying around with new substrate and media ideas lately and looked at this thread again.

I have been thinking how cool it would be to acquire virgin, heat sterilized soils for herpetoculture use - soils that were not appropriated from another industry and dubious for animal contact - but verified clean of lead, pesticides, herbicides etc.

Sandy soils, loamy soils, hard soils, soft soils. Where some of you live you can probably get nice dirt and treat it yourselves for biologicals but so much human encroachment can even leave residues in land that seems rural.

It would be nice to get soil and know that its been tested. I got some peat a couple years ago and noticed it smelled different and had a different texture and the guy on the phone let it slip that the peat was now not exactly 100% peat - oh the peat was, but it was being stretched out with other type that originally had additives that expired. It would be a strange thing to make up and he was a nice guy being honest about a product that wasnt being marketed for the use I was using it for (Small neotropical amphibian species)

Pet products made by big companies are more nebulous in their ingredients and 'tested' standards. But I have found Zoomed to be very forthright in communicating their sources and protocols.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: April 24th, 2017, 5:43 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 11:13 pm
Posts: 2385
Location: Greater Houston TX Area
Kelly Mc wrote:
Ive been toying around with new substrate and media ideas lately and looked at this thread again.

I have been thinking how cool it would be to acquire virgin, heat sterilized soils for herpetoculture use - . . . get nice dirt and treat it yourselves for biologicals


On the other hand, rather than sterile soils, have you considered using bioactive substrate? Especially for neotropical frogs?

Like this guy advocates? Very intriguing.


Top
 Profile WWW 
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: April 24th, 2017, 6:57 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
I had different needs for the animals I was taking care of as there was a non permanence of retail situ in many of the displays and a changing influx and populace.

I have checked out that product and for long term permanent environments would rather let it happen on its own, which it does without much effort.

I would not encourage a bioactive situation in my own personal collection of reptiles on an ideological that its the new thing, I have a kind of 'controllable representative' type of strategy with what Im keeping thats been working really well.

Im a case by case kind of keeper. I wouldnt rule it out, I get the appeal of having a self mitigating situ but I guess I like the actual maintanence/monitoring of husbandry. Weirdo i am.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: zoo med excavator clay
PostPosted: April 24th, 2017, 8:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3951
Location: San Francisco, California
ImageWP_20140607_02_23_20_Pro.jpg by Kelly McDougall, on Flickr


This is the most bioactive guy I have. The moss I cant take credit for, it just grows over the cork and coney textured rock, but stops at the slate not shown in this view. Its not a good quality pic but shows how principles in a closed system can cause life to 'go its own way'


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: