Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

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simus343
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Joined: March 30th, 2014, 1:16 pm
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.

Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by simus343 »

So this year one of my female H. platirhinos is finally of appropriate size to be breeding, so I am going to be trying to get her to do so. My question is, does anyone have any or know someone with any experience breeding Heterodon platirhinos and incubating the eggs?

I.E. is there a way to stimulate the female to start laying down her pheromone trail, what temp are the eggs incubated at, what humidity/moisture level should the soil be kept at (does vermiculite work?).

There is lots out there on the western species, but the habitat that H. nascius lives in is different than H. platirhinos, and so I would imagine the eggs have "evolved" to be suited for different "optimal" conditions.

I will also add that I am not expecting to have a successful first year, and that I very well may make some mistakes, assuming my male and female hook up.

I am keeping them together in a 40 gallon with deep, damp soil, a 10.0 UVB bulb and a 100w heat lamp situated about 1 1/4 feet above the topsoil in the enclosure.

So again, if anyone has experience breeding H. platirhinos and incubating their eggs, or knows anyone that has done so, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you :beer: !
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Berkeley Boone
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by Berkeley Boone »

Good luck!

First, separate them. Absence makes the male snake heart grow fonder. Seriously! Well, maybe not all lovey-dovey, but if you separate them instead of keeping them together, it stimulates breeding better.

Feed the heck out of the female, and get a good shed from her. As soon as she is out of the skin, take it and drop it in the male's tank. The pheromones that are in the skin oils will do their trick there. Once you see his activity level pick up (cruising around the cage, nosing the corners or the shed itself), introduce him to the female. They should mate soon after that.

Separate them again. Then introduce them once more a few days later. Repeat until you grow tired of this. Hognose eggs are very softshelled, so it is difficult to palpate them inside the female, at least in my opinion. She'll start looking heavier though, particularly at the back end. Give her a lay box filled with damp coco coir/sphagnum moss/peat/whatever and she should drop right in there when she is ready, and after a pre-lay shed.

In regards to incubation, it is nothing tricky. I have left the egg boxes in the snake room (ambient temps were 78-80, and as high as 84) and just let them sit. I have used vermiculite and nestled the eggs down in that, then covered them loosely with some damp sphagnum moss. Looking at my records, it took an even 75 days for pippage.

Just for the record, this was when I lived in South Carolina. I had 92 eggs laid that season (two different females) and more than 70 hatched.

Good luck! I wish you success!
--Berkeley
simus343
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Joined: March 30th, 2014, 1:16 pm
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by simus343 »

Thanks. My male is already an extremely active snake, so hopefully he'll take interest in the shed otherwise it may be very difficult to know if he is "prepared" or not.
mwentz
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by mwentz »

Berkeley Boone wrote: Just for the record, this was when I lived in South Carolina. I had 92 eggs laid that season (two different females) and more than 70 hatched.

Good luck! I wish you success!
--Berkeley
Is this a normal amount of eggs? Holy cow, that is a lot of little mouths to feed! :shock:
simus343
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by simus343 »

mwentz wrote:
Berkeley Boone wrote: Just for the record, this was when I lived in South Carolina. I had 92 eggs laid that season (two different females) and more than 70 hatched.

Good luck! I wish you success!
--Berkeley
Is this a normal amount of eggs? Holy cow, that is a lot of little mouths to feed! :shock:
Some old field studies I read up on about wild breeding activity said that up to 76 eggs can be produced by a single female, if my memory is correct. The listed range was something like 4-76, with an average of about 25 eggs.
Kfen
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by Kfen »

Did you cool or brumate them? I have no captive experience with any hogs, but going by all other North american colubrids, cooling will certainly help, and may be needed.
simus343
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Joined: March 30th, 2014, 1:16 pm
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by simus343 »

Both were cooled to some degree, but I keep them inside and don't use any elaborate heating/cooling systems. I basically cooled them to room temp by not using any heating sources, that was about as much as I had the resources to do. I did notice some dip in activity during January, other than that both remained active though.
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Berkeley Boone
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by Berkeley Boone »

mwentz wrote:Is this a normal amount of eggs? Holy cow, that is a lot of little mouths to feed! :shock:
Ha ha! Yeah, I was pretty surprised too, when I found 51 eggs in the first box. I thought it was some kind of joke first, then some kind of record, but I looked into it, and as ol' simus said, those hognoses can lay a HEAP of eggs. I think it also has something to do with them being so soft (think 'silky marshmallows'): more can fit in there because they are a lot more pliable than other snake eggs. The female was also a giant too, 3 feet and a few inches long.

It was a LOT of work catching all the toads to feed out. I began parceling out babies as soon as I could, and that helped.

--Berkeley
Kfen
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by Kfen »

If you end up without eggs, or without fertile eggs this year, I would suggest trying to cool them as much as you can. Putting them in a garage, basement (not sure if they exist anywhere in FL), or even on the floor, may get you a few degrees cooler than your regular room temp. Hopefully your slight cooling is enough to get them to cycle, and allow for sperm maturation. Like I said, I have never worked with hogs, so maybe they dont need it at all.
simus343
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Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.

Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by simus343 »

I know someone that does westerns and he cooled some of his and didn't cool others, and with H. nascius he found it didn't matter much so long as male and female were wanting to mate.

Then for corns, one day at work we dumb lucked across the information that they don't need cooling either haha. They were kept warm in hopes that they wouldn't breed. They were also given nothing moist except a water bowl, the rest of the cage was standard corn-keeping aspen bark and a towel that a grey rat kept with them enjoyed hiding in. One day while cleaning the cage a fresh batch of eggs was discovered, removed, and incubated. All 7 hatched.

So...hopefully I get similar success without any traditional cooling used (fingers crossed).
stlouisdude
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by stlouisdude »

Since you live in FL, I'd be tempted to build an outdoor enclosure. That would be the most reliable way to cycle them, I think. I'd do that up here but I'd have to dig 5 feet deep to avoid the frost line!
simus343
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Joined: March 30th, 2014, 1:16 pm
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Re: Breeding H. platirhinos Qs

Post by simus343 »

stlouisdude wrote:Since you live in FL, I'd be tempted to build an outdoor enclosure. That would be the most reliable way to cycle them, I think. I'd do that up here but I'd have to dig 5 feet deep to avoid the frost line!
You'd be surprised with NW Fla weather. It isn't warm year round like old field guides and south Fla residents might suggest haha. This fall I will be moving even further north, but still in FL, where weather during winter frequently freezes. I doubt an out-door enclosure will do well there, not one that I'd have the time to make any ways. Yet, I will be trying to get a cattle tank to keep them outside during warm weather and see how that affects their general behavior - and to help keep indoors smell-free of their feces haha.
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