It is currently June 24th, 2018, 12:47 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: "bioactive setups"
PostPosted: December 4th, 2015, 11:03 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 11th, 2010, 4:21 pm
Posts: 539
Anyone here have much experience with these? I know it is standard modus operandi with frogs and the like...but a lot of people are using them with snakes.

I went ahead and moved a couple of my Dasypeltis from just aspen onto a layer of hydroballs topped with aspen and seeded with lots of isopods. It will be more humid but I don't think it will harm them. With the small amounts of pasty waste they produce(Dasypeltis smell the least by far of all the snakes I've worked with)

they shouldn't pose much of a problem at all.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "bioactive setups"
PostPosted: December 4th, 2015, 1:19 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 4082
Location: San Francisco, California
Just smell it regularly. If it smells sulfuric or dank, its not propagating the biology you want. If the aspen darkens, that happens especially in the cooler aspect, its mildew type mycology like what prospers on damp paper or cloth. A hamperish smell. Isopods don't feed on some families of mildew and molds. There can be a chain effect of secondary and opportunistic communities of organisms you probably don't want your animals breathing in a closed space. Aspergillus is one.

The reason why bio activity works so well in frog environments is that the conditions frogs like can support a good nitrogen cycle. Its unproven with snakes, exciting when it does work, but I have seen disasters. One that readily comes to mind is an L.alternata that had scud and an enteric infection from being in an exuberantly applied 'living system'

The owner of the snake wasn't as knowledgeable as you though


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "bioactive setups"
PostPosted: December 5th, 2015, 12:59 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 11th, 2010, 4:21 pm
Posts: 539
I think the issue is that snakes need an area they can get to if they wish to be dry. Ventilation is also essential.

Good to keep in mind on the aspen. I simply used it since it was what I had on hand.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "bioactive setups"
PostPosted: December 5th, 2015, 1:03 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 4082
Location: San Francisco, California
I have found that snakes will avoid defecating in or near their favored repose areas if the environment is kept clean. I just remove the stool when it occurs, and the small clump of collaterally soiled sub with it.

From what I have observed, snakes don't want to be in the vicinity of their stool, or sheds. It is probably a survival instinct as its presence is a definite calling card.

If stool and sheds are allowed to collect they desensitize to it and a keeper might not notice. patterns of activity are often suppressed by factors of non value to many keepers. To each is own, and to each their own motive for keeping.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "bioactive setups"
PostPosted: December 5th, 2015, 1:24 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 4082
Location: San Francisco, California
Joseph S. wrote:
I think the issue is that snakes need an area they can get to if they wish to be dry. Ventilation is also essential.

Good to keep in mind on the aspen. I simply used it since it was what I had on hand.


Yeah I agree. I mist my guys, sometimes light, other times heavier, but always have a no mist zone, even though it blows off completely.

Don't you wish we could get some good dirt? I'd kill for some verifiably good dirt.

My friend has property in Montana and he went there last year - its virginal and been in his family for over 100 years, cool old log cabin and everything. I asked him to bring me back a sack of dirt but he forgot.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "bioactive setups"
PostPosted: December 12th, 2015, 1:04 pm 

Joined: March 6th, 2012, 12:45 pm
Posts: 513
Location: utah
I do for my monitors, can't beat two feet of dirt In a larger enclosure. . . Unless you put more than that. Just a pain to haul in two tons of dirt into the basement using 5 gallon buckets initially, but worth the effort.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "bioactive setups"
PostPosted: December 14th, 2015, 6:10 pm 

Joined: December 3rd, 2010, 12:06 pm
Posts: 1722
Quote:
haul in two tons of dirt into the basement using 5 gallon buckets


That's a funny picture Chris. I've done that going the other direction (digging down the interior of a crawl space to make it walkable-height) but bucketing tons of dirt into the house?!?!? You got a good wife bro, all I can say.

Quote:
Ventilation is also essential.


YES. YES YES YES.

I've been building - and loving - fairly large front-opening vivaria with "European-style" venting: 1) a full-width aperture (by about 2" high) on the front - below the glass and not far (~ an inch) above the top of the substrate - and 2) an identical aperture at the rear of the top of the enclosure. Plus I put one circular louver vent (diameter depending on viv size) on either side, at the top and front of each side.

All these apertures are double-screened. The inside gets some super-tough plastic screening (7x stronger than fiberglass window screen) epoxied into place, while the outside gets a commercial vent cover.

This layout allows great flow-through of fresh air, basically proportional to the heat differential between the top and bottom of the internal air space (easily modified by lights or heat panels). And you're sure to not get heavy-gas buildup down at the substrate level - it easily pours out the front vent at night, when everything inside is the same temperature. It's also excellent for providing great thermal & moisture gradients all over the cage. Particularly if you're adding humidity via misting or watering live plants. These are great plant greenhouses, and also good for naturalistic vivaria. They don't lose humidity nearly as fast as an off-the-shelf Exo-Terra, which IMO have way too much venting on top.

I think this design is pretty awesome for animal respiratory health, and husbandry convenience with the gradients (give options & let the animals choose what they want). It takes out a lot of the need to "nail it, perfect".

cheers


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "bioactive setups"
PostPosted: December 14th, 2015, 6:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 4082
Location: San Francisco, California
Love it! And I love the detailed descriptions you do of hardware, materials and function, its even better than the common here's a pic presentation.

Air IS everything and understanding how heat keeps it moving, which you describe. Air is always moving in natural circumstances, ie the wild. Moisture happens, and it evaporates. Then it happens again. The physical behaviors of air warmth and moisture can either be thwarted by heat a closed system, or stagnant OR it can be all healthfully incorporated. And its almost like, when something is good, really good, its good it many ways. You can still have moisture, And fresh air. One doesn't have to sacrifice one for the other, and moisture, in most cases doesn't have to be at a constant. Cycles! Let nature take its course! In a well devised environment it can!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: