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 Post subject: breeding loans
PostPosted: December 9th, 2016, 12:02 am 

Joined: June 17th, 2010, 4:51 am
Posts: 350
Location: CT
Hey everyone, its been a little while since I was on here. Anyone ever been involved with a breeding loan? I am likely to get involved with 2, I will be the loaner with one friend and the loanee with another. Is there some general standard about who gets what? I was thinking of just splitting any offspring 50/50 and the adults remain belonging to the original person. What about if an animal gets sick or dies? Who would be responsible for that?
Thanks for any input.


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 Post subject: Re: breeding loans
PostPosted: December 9th, 2016, 12:17 am 

Joined: June 17th, 2010, 4:51 am
Posts: 350
Location: CT
I guess I should add in both of my situations, all adults will be moved. This is not a "I have a female and friend has a male" kind of thing. There are also no known or expected morphs to come from any of this. Who gets first pic (which likely wont matter but you never know), the owner or borrower?


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 Post subject: Re: breeding loans
PostPosted: December 9th, 2016, 12:48 am 
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Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3948
Location: San Francisco, California
Its always seemed case to case in personal formats, but be sure to work out everything you have just discussed with the other party.

I dont know of a standardized creed. I have only loaned out my cabinet incubator and my time for pick of the litter.

Dont end up on Judge Judy..lol!


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 Post subject: Re: breeding loans
PostPosted: December 9th, 2016, 11:35 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:02 am
Posts: 510
Location: Southern Cal.
One of the things I worked out was splitting the litter, but if you get the first pick the other owner gets the extra odd animal if you get an odd number of offspring. I have had a good experience each time. But get it in writing if you feel you need to. Make a contract that you both sign.

Communication is the key. All the times I recall doing a loan the other person was local, so we could talk on the phone. I probably would not agree to shipping the animal for a breeding loan, unless I trusted them and could talk to them every few days.
Trust is the other issue. The old adage of : "Neither a borrower nor a lender be" comes to mind. I always had 100% trust in the individual I did the loan with.

I am really a small operation though. I successfully breed 6-10 pairs of animals each year.
If you have any questions you can pm me also.


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 Post subject: Re: breeding loans
PostPosted: January 4th, 2017, 10:12 pm 

Joined: July 2nd, 2010, 5:48 pm
Posts: 682
Location: AZ.
Craig is spot on, a contract of sort protects both parties from wrong assumptions and misunderstandings. It will memorialize the agreement and assure clear expectations. I think the person with the female has more responsibility and more risk (females may become egg bound/dystocia, etc.) , therefore I give them first pick, and if odd number of hatchlings, they get the extra. I would include in contract words to the effect: "living animals may die for known or unknown reasons, and the parties agree to hold blameless the party keeping animals in that event, and the keeper agrees to exercise reasonable care and diligence consistent with competent husbandry and modern hepetoculture." Yes, I know that is a lot of rubbish if someone contests it, but I would not go into a breeding agreement unless I trusted the other party and knew they were reasonable and competent and had the same goals. The couple times I have done it it went smooth and both parties were satisfied.

With some species of limited gene pool, we should probably do more of these breeding loans. With high dollar value animals, the contract is important, some folks do strange things when $ is concerned...

Good luck, Vic


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 Post subject: Re: breeding loans
PostPosted: January 5th, 2017, 5:28 pm 

Joined: December 3rd, 2010, 12:06 pm
Posts: 1652
Excellent advice, and well put, Vic.

I have had a couple low-cost but hard-to-replace animals die in others' care. I let it go easy, they were trusted, but it would have been even better if we had a piece of paper we'd created together. Later, I found myself worrying a little about my friends feeling weird about it all. Probably wouldn't have worried had there been some paper, if we had just acknowledged the possible up front and agreed "this is what will happen, in the event...".

People shouldn't get queasy about putting stuff in writing. Just the act of writing something down, passing it back and forth, hammering out the vague stuff and coming to terms, will usually enhance mutual trust. I've had that outcome on lots of other "jobs", just not breeding loans. Yet.

Kfen - I think you probably won't need the "contract" but if you do, you will find it priceless. "Agree first, or argue later."

Quote:
some folks do strange things when $ is concerned...

Truer words could scarcely be said.

Vic - If you've got one laying around, a sticky with a boilerplate doc could be a nice little community service.

cheers


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