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A Little history of herpeoculture - good and bad

Posted: March 27th, 2019, 5:51 am
by BillMcGighan
First, an answer to a question from this post:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=25483&p=269357#p269357


My statement:
I understand. I've been to those types of markets in Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, and the Peoples Republic of China and the first thing that hits you is the sight of hundreds of turtles piled in screen cages, dozens of Radiated Ratsnakes in various states of disrepair, maybe an ematiated retic or Burmese python. It's disgusting, though many Miami wholesalers in the US in the '60s were as bad or worse. :x
Kfen's:
Bill, do you have pictures of any of those markets?

Answer:
Sorry, I don’t remember any pics, but every winter I make headway digitizing photos I took in the “60s, ‘70s, ‘80s, and 90s, so some may yet turn up!

To be clear these Asian markets were not pet distributers, but food and “snake blood, heart and gall” drink shops.

Some mild examples:

https://bangkokherps.com/tag/markets/
3rd pic down

https://thelemursarehungry.wordpress.co ... ng-market/
3rd pic down

http://www.chelonia.org/articles/china/china12ambo.htm

https://thetakeout.com/inside-the-last- ... 1798259325

http://wwf.panda.org/?unewsid=204311




In the ‘50s, ‘60s, and early ‘70s our own animal importers were as bad. I remember going to several importers (like Bill Chase and Ray Singleton) in ’69 to see 3 foot piles of baby boas (about $3.00 each) where the healthiest were at the top of the pile. The bottom layer were dead. Same for Florida Kings and Corns.

Similarly,
Several species of Oriental Ratsnakes (Elaphe and Spalerosophis)) were imported to the U.S. in the mid-1970s and all died after a few weeks. Upon close examination by the Dallas Zoo veterinarian, it was discovered that gall bladders had been skillfully removed for human medicinal purposes. Prior to export, a small incision had been made but scales were never cut, only the interstitial skin, and the tiniest sutures used to complete the surgery.
Quote from Reptile Dealers and Their Price Lists By James B. Murphy (Research Associate, Department of Herpetology, Smithsonian Institution, National Zoological Park) and Ken McCloud (Research Associate, Steinhart Aquarium, California Academy of Sciences)

Re: A Little history of herpeoculture - good and bad

Posted: March 27th, 2019, 6:06 am
by BillMcGighan
A far as history, I really recommend this paper:
[/color][/quote]Quote from Reptile Dealers and Their Price Lists By James B. Murphy (Research Associate, Department of Herpetology, Smithsonian Institution, National Zoological Park) and Ken McCloud (Research Associate, Steinhart Aquarium, California Academy of Sciences)

https://www.academia.edu/32926785/Repti ... rice_Lists


Not only does it lay out a good history, it has some very positive comments on modern day captive propagation!

Re: A Little history of herpeoculture - good and bad

Posted: April 1st, 2019, 5:40 am
by BillMcGighan
Excerpt from this paper's conclusion:
There are two parts to the reptile industry—the one for pets and the one for enthusiasts.” (J. Coote, pers. comm.). There will always be that responsible group who keep living herps for personal enjoyment, contentment, and increase of knowledge, but perhaps the total number of pet keepers will begin to wane.
We stress here that without access to living amphibians and reptiles when we were youngsters learning about the natural world, our lives would have likely taken very different and perhaps less fulfilling trajectories. The excitement and wonder of working with these animals guided our entire professional careers and we feel fortunate to have had this wonderful opportunity. It would be tragic if this chance were to be lost to future generations. We are concerned about the increasing number of laws and local ordinances restricting the keeping of herps, based on emotion, lack of biological awareness, and ophiophobia rather than careful scientific appraisals. Our final thought—we think that careful captive breeding produces quality stock and is a reasonable approach to ensure that living herps are available to all conscientious persons.
Quote from Reptile Dealers and Their Price Lists By James B. Murphy (Research Associate, Department of Herpetology, Smithsonian Institution, National Zoological Park) and Ken McCloud (Research Associate, Steinhart Aquarium, California Academy of Sciences)

Re: A Little history of herpeoculture - good and bad

Posted: October 12th, 2019, 2:55 am
by jonathan
BillMcGighan wrote:
March 27th, 2019, 5:51 am
In the ‘50s, ‘60s, and early ‘70s our own animal importers were as bad. I remember going to several importers (like Bill Chase and Ray Singleton) in ’69 to see 3 foot piles of baby boas (about $3.00 each) where the healthiest were at the top of the pile. The bottom layer were dead. Same for Florida Kings and Corns.
Even more recently than that in some cases. I vividly remember in my childhood (probably early 1990s) seeing an enclosure with so many grass lizards in it they were layered several deep.