Keepers?

Captive care and husbandry discussions.

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Bladeblaster
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Keepers?

Post by Bladeblaster » March 14th, 2011, 12:26 am

How many of you guys keep snakes?

The pictures on this forum, are really making me question my keeping. I have kept quite a few species, and TBH I keep them well, however I do tend to favour fairly basic set ups and the snakes I keep do well in them, i.e. feed, shed, breed etc etc.

But.................I am really starting to wonder, what really is best for them. I know I could never provide a truely natural set up, as being in captivity is never natural.

I would be very interested to hear how many of you guys keep snakes, and how you keep them.

Many thanks,

Terry.

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Keepers?

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » March 14th, 2011, 12:42 am

I keep them in a photo album, they do quite well very little maintenance :lol:

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Don
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Don » March 14th, 2011, 5:08 am

I keep snakes and have done so for 48 years. IMHO they don't need or benefit from pseudo-natural surroundings. Most of the time they are snug in their hide boxes, coming out to eat, drink and poop. I believe that the worst thing one can do with a captive snake is overfeed it.

Paul White
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Paul White » March 14th, 2011, 5:20 am

I've kept snakes since I was 12 (I still have the boa I got when I was like 12-13). I've done natural set ups a few time but TBH, I think I got more out of it than the snake did. Still not a bad thing and the set ups were very pretty in my living room; a big naturalistic display with sansiveria and jade and...something I'm forgetting as ground cover...for a small cal king male I used to have was a particular hit. about 18" of soil depth and he'd dig in and around the root systems...kind of neat to watch.

The important thing, I think, is to allow them to express behaviors; if it's a climbing snake (chondros, vine snakes, many rat snakes etc) FFS don't keep it in a tub. If it's a digger (even if it isn't strictly fossorial) give it a substrate it can burrow in.

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Daryl Eby
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Daryl Eby » March 14th, 2011, 5:46 am

I don't keep any, but I allow my sons to keep two snakes. They have a regal ringneck and a Mexican hognose. Both are kept in secure enclosures with natural hides and about three inches of substrate. Neither is handled other than for cleaning and checking their health. They are considered specimens, not pets. I'd rather not have them at all but believe that keeping captives was very good for me as a child and my son's both seem to get a lot out of having, observing and caring for them.

Russell_Keys
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Russell_Keys » March 14th, 2011, 6:24 am

As a child my mother bought a yearly subscription to Ranger Rick magazine. So that was my only way to be exposed to wildlife outside of my local fauna. It was in that magazine that I was introduced to corn snakes and wanted one ever since. But it wasn't till I was in college that I finally got one. So being in North Dakota, I tend to "import" my favorites rather than just be able to drive an hour or more. Even a full day of driving isn't going to get me to places like Florida where I dream of making it one day to find and catch my own wild corn snake.

So anyhow, yes I have a collection of snakes, and I breed and raise corn snakes by a few hundred a year plus breed and raise Northern Pines. My herping trips tend to be limited to...I have a free evening in late summer, so I go road cruising just after dark. And if the weather is right...I find toads sometimes by the thousands in a night. Other times I've gotten skunked! But this year I hope to change that up a little and take a few of my precious vacation days from work to travel into western North Dakota and play with the bullsnakes I hear are everywhere out there.

But yes, I do keep snakes and enjoy them. As do my kids! And no, I don't keep any naturalistic displays. They seem fine with the setups that I have for them.

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Bladeblaster
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Bladeblaster » March 14th, 2011, 6:28 am

I am pretty much in agreeance with all you guys TBH.

None of my snakes really get handled unles they need to be, I don't class them as 'pets'

I tend to keep smaller / younger snakes in a more 'psuedo-natural' (good word) set up as from my experience they seem to get more out of it, and it usually offers a lot more hiding oportunities.

I also agre about over feeding, very few of my snakes are fed weekley pst 12 months of age.

I have kept D. punctatus punctatus really cool little guys. Yes set ups are ovbiously spieces dependent, I keep quite a few carpet pythons, and they all have opportunity to climb.

Thanks for your input guys. :thumb:

Bladeblaster
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Bladeblaster » March 14th, 2011, 6:36 am

I suppose I should add some pics of set ups :thumb:


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Paul White
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Paul White » March 14th, 2011, 6:42 am

some of mine I handle regularly, some I hardly ever do. My albino retic gets handled about once a week cause she's fun (but tiring, large snake), my florida kings get handled semi-regularly. Some don't mind it, some do. The ones that don't get handled a bit. The ones that do get left alone. That'd include my corn, my speckled king, my checkered garter and my house snakes.

And it seems to stimulate their bowels like non other :lol:

who made your cages btw?

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Dusty Rhoads
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Dusty Rhoads » March 14th, 2011, 6:42 am

Bladeblaster wrote:How many of you guys keep snakes?

The pictures on this forum, are really making me question my keeping. I have kept quite a few species, and TBH I keep them well, however I do tend to favour fairly basic set ups and the snakes I keep do well in them, i.e. feed, shed, breed etc etc.

But.................I am really starting to wonder, what really is best for them. I know I could never provide a truely natural set up, as being in captivity is never natural.

I would be very interested to hear how many of you guys keep snakes, and how you keep them.

Many thanks,

Terry.


Hi Terry,

I think many of us begin to wonder those things at some point or another. I sometimes get the hankering to buy a lizard for my office or box turtle to put near my garden, but those feelings quickly subside when I think about the expense of crickets for the lizard and the care that would be required of any animal that needs to eat on an almost daily basis, if I were to go out of town for more than a few days.
I do agree with Daryl about especially allowing kids to be able to keep a few. There are great benefits to keeping animals. For me, as a kid, herpetology meant keeping animals (and going to the library to read about them). I presently don't keep any animals -- I got rid of my collection last year -- , but I've found other ways to enjoy them by studying them in school and herping.

That being said, there are many herpetologists and field herpers who still keep herps. Harry Greene, for instance, keeps some in naturalistic setups in his office/facility at Cornell.

Though I haven't fully warmed up the the idea of a lizard or turtle (yet), I am preparing a vivarium at school for a baby Gartersnake or two, but I am going to do it up well with live plants, soil, rocks, etc. With a snake, and I'm sure you know this, even if I am gone for a few weeks, I would probably only have to have someone stop by to feed them once or twice during the entire trip. For me, gone are the days of keeping many snakes on aspen bedding with the intention of breeding for new morph combinations.

Bladeblaster
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Bladeblaster » March 14th, 2011, 6:46 am

Paul White wrote:some of mine I handle regularly, some I hardly ever do. My albino retic gets handled about once a week cause she's fun (but tiring, large snake), my florida kings get handled semi-regularly. Some don't mind it, some do. The ones that don't get handled a bit. The ones that do get left alone. That'd include my corn, my speckled king, my checkered garter and my house snakes.

And it seems to stimulate their bowels like non other :lol:

who made your cages btw?

I made most of the cages myself mate :thumb:

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ACK!
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Re: Keepers?

Post by ACK! » March 14th, 2011, 6:50 am

M.J.FRANETOVICH wrote:I keep them in a photo album, they do quite well very little maintenance :lol:
It must be really tough keeping such an album closed......how do you stop them from escaping between the pages?



:shock: :mrgreen: :crazyeyes:

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Re: Keepers?

Post by Paul White » March 14th, 2011, 6:57 am

but...now who's breeding trans pecos rats? :cry: They're on my permanent some-day list I think at this point :lol:

Lizards are a blast; part of me just wants to get a leopard gecko for the office :) They're cute, and crickets aren't *that* expensive if you're only feeding one. Some year, or so I keep telling myself, I'll try my hand at a small arboreal monitor (like a Timor or maybe beccari).

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Don Becker
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Don Becker » March 14th, 2011, 6:59 am

I keep a collection of mainly local animals that are used for classes at a local nature center. I do handle my snakes, just so I can be sure they are calm when I am showing them to kids.

Bladeblaster
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Bladeblaster » March 14th, 2011, 7:01 am

Dusty Rhoads wrote:
Bladeblaster wrote:How many of you guys keep snakes?

The pictures on this forum, are really making me question my keeping. I have kept quite a few species, and TBH I keep them well, however I do tend to favour fairly basic set ups and the snakes I keep do well in them, i.e. feed, shed, breed etc etc.

But.................I am really starting to wonder, what really is best for them. I know I could never provide a truely natural set up, as being in captivity is never natural.

I would be very interested to hear how many of you guys keep snakes, and how you keep them.

Many thanks,

Terry.


Hi Terry,

I think many of us begin to wonder those things at some point or another. I sometimes get the hankering to buy a lizard for my office or box turtle to put near my garden, but those feelings quickly subside when I think about the expense of crickets for the lizard and the care that would be required of any animal that needs to eat on an almost daily basis, if I were to go out of town for more than a few days.
I do agree with Daryl about especially allowing kids to be able to keep a few. There are great benefits to keeping animals. For me, as a kid, herpetology meant keeping animals (and going to the library to read about them). I presently don't keep any animals -- I got rid of my collection last year -- , but I've found other ways to enjoy them by studying them in school and herping.

That being said, there are many herpetologists and field herpers who still keep herps. Harry Greene, for instance, keeps some in naturalistic setups in his office/facility at Cornell.

Though I haven't fully warmed up the the idea of a lizard or turtle (yet), I am preparing a vivarium at school for a baby Gartersnake or two, but I am going to do it up well with live plants, soil, rocks, etc. With a snake, and I'm sure you know this, even if I am gone for a few weeks, I would probably only have to have someone stop by to feed them once or twice during the entire trip. For me, gone are the days of keeping many snakes on aspen bedding with the intention of breeding for new morph combinations.

Yes mate, I think I am maybe reaching a junction in my keeping? I like morphs, but I cannot do the whole rack thing, I just don't get that. It works for others, and I am not going to preach my opinion to them, its just not for me. I only keep 2 royals, as royals really aren't my bag, but I am interested in all species in one way or another, so I have a couple to observe. I do love wild type snakes though, and especially some of the species less common in captivity. My cave racers are becoming firm favourites of my current clan. My ultimate dream is to have kept and bred every possible species of snakes, (impossible I know) but hey its a dream.

However field work is becoming an increasing yearning, and one that I fully intend to fullfil. I think that its good that it makes us question our keeping, it has certainly altered the way I view my keeping, questioning your own methods is good for progress.

and I am with you on the lizards, cool to watch, but hard work. I have a dog for that :lol:

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ALT
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Re: Keepers?

Post by ALT » March 14th, 2011, 9:18 am

I keep a few species I really enjoy, as well as a few I really don't but were guilt trip "rescues" and good for outreach (Boa constrictor). Had quite a big, diverse collection at one point. It was the whole never allowed to keep certain animals growing up, now on my own and can do whatever I want thing. No morphs. No scaly paper weights. Nothing huge. Absolutely no herbivores. Rubber boas and Western hogs because they're good "gateway snakes" for doing outreach. Get the ophidiophobes hooked with small cute stuff and they realize hey, snakes aren't so bad. I'm convinced any person that can hold a rubber boa and not fall in love, or is not drawn in by the ridiculous upturned nose of a hognose snake does not have a soul. Mexican Pines and Eastern Coachwhips because they actually move every day and do stuff (and I can't legally own elapids in my state). Varanus acanthurus because they're all the fun of a monitor in an easy to house package. Not that much work either when you raise your own roaches. Keeping herps is what got me into herpetology and I don't think I could ever be truly happy without at least one snake in my house.

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muskiemagnet
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Re: Keepers?

Post by muskiemagnet » March 14th, 2011, 10:59 am

i don't keep herps myself, and i do not condone anyone for any lawful collecting. i am interested in herp conservation, so i would feel like a hypocrite for keeping any. i urge anyone to use sound judgment when collecting however. if a population is strong (in your opinion) than keep one or two. if you believe that the future does not look good, even though protection is not enforced, leave them be. if this is the case, and one wants to collect, keep males. leave the females to help the population. i come from a habitat fragmented state, so these thoughts may not be an issue in other states. use good judgment. there's my thoughts on the subject.

-ben

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M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: Keepers?

Post by M.J.FRANETOVICH » March 14th, 2011, 11:00 am

ACK! wrote:
M.J.FRANETOVICH wrote:I keep them in a photo album, they do quite well very little maintenance :lol:
It must be really tough keeping such an album closed......how do you stop them from escaping between the pages?



:shock: :mrgreen: :crazyeyes:



:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ya"!!! It is tough, plus they never grow old or die.

A very long time ago I kept a small collection of rattlesnakes, but as you can imagine ther enclosures where set up as user friendly as possible :beer:

Mel~

Paul White
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Paul White » March 14th, 2011, 11:17 am

i am interested in herp conservation, so i would feel like a hypocrite for keeping any
Total non-sequitor? It's not like everything is WC now. On some stuff you're many generations in to CBB.

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Berkeley Boone
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Berkeley Boone » March 14th, 2011, 11:28 am

muskiemagnet wrote:i don't keep herps myself, and i do not condone anyone for any lawful collecting.
Ben-
Just to clarify the point, not all herps that are kept are wild collected. Many of the individuals that people keep now are captive bred. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just making sure readers get the point that not every kid is just going out and collecting a herp for a pet. I know it happens though, don't misunderstand me.
muskiemagnet wrote:i am interested in herp conservation, so i would feel like a hypocrite for keeping any.
I think I understand your thoughts behind this statement, but to achieve conservation, sometimes you have to work with captive individuals. What about all the assurance colonies of the Asian turtle species that are being eaten out of existence? Or those wonderful Okeetee-phase corns that everyone drools over so much? (And I see Paul has added a response to this while I was preparing this one)
muskiemagnet wrote:if a population is strong (in your opinion) than keep one or two. if you believe that the future does not look good, even though protection is not enforced, leave them be.
In my opinion gopher tortoises have a very strong population in Georgia, but the fact is they are still protected and cannot be kept in captivity without the proper permits. Again, these are all points based toward people who may go out and collect something, not the people who go to PetsMart and buy it.

I'm just pointing out some things that should be clarified. Not trying to bust your chops, Ben!
--Berkeley

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Nir
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Nir » March 14th, 2011, 11:41 am

I keep snakes.

I think the type of set-up is depends on the species... For example, I love milksnakes... Those are kept in tubs with waterbowls hide and aspen bedding for burrowing... I don't think they need anything more.

On the other side, I keep Spilotes. Those are the type of snake that need a more elaborate set-up to be fully enjoyed. My adults are kept in more naturalistic set-ups that I built myself.

Pics:
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Dusty, this is for you, you inspired me to keep those a few years back and I must say I really enjoyed your article in HerpNation! In fact, I just ordered the complete suboc!

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Paul White
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Paul White » March 14th, 2011, 12:28 pm

those spilotes are drool worthy.
On a similar vein, I dream of getting a large (say, 6x3x6) cage and setting up a trio of Oxybelis fulgidus some day. frigging awesome snakes.

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Cole Grover
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Cole Grover » March 14th, 2011, 12:32 pm

This would be a perfect topic to bridge FHF with the former (and maybe future???) Captive Bred Forum. I live in the Great White North. Though my passion for herps lies in the field, I keep and breed a moderately sized and fairly specialized collection of Colubrids with sound locality data. Without some captives, my interaction with the animals I'm so fascinated by would be limited to our few short summer months. With regard to how the animals are kept, he species I specialize in, Lampropeltis triangulum, fares best in a relatively confined, simplistic enclosure. Attempts to maintain this species in "naturalistic" enclosures are generally met with failure.

Lampropeltis triangulum multistrata
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I also have a pair of Rhacodactylus ciliatus geckos that live in a naturalistic enclosure in my office. They're possibly the perfect "office pet" and my coworkers seem to enjoy them, too. They do well in the enclosure and regularly reproduce.
muskiemagnet wrote:i don't keep herps myself, and i do not condone anyone for any lawful collecting. i am interested in herp conservation, so i would feel like a hypocrite for keeping any.
I'm also interested in herp conservation. Strongly, in fact. I also regularly donate funds from any captive-produced offspring I sell to various conservation organizations (including the IRCF, for which I've also written articles). Additionally, some of the animals I've produced in captivity have gone to research facilities and zoos across the country, as well as overseas. I simply fail to see the two (keeping herps and conservation) as mutually exclusive. Care to elaborate?

-Cole

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Natalie McNear
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Natalie McNear » March 14th, 2011, 1:38 pm

I also keep a modest collection of snakes, including some I legally collected myself, and I don't think it conflicts in any way with wanting to find/observe/protect them in the wild. I like to use my snakes to teach others, and they've been to countless classrooms and been handled by more people than I can remember. The majority of my snakes are Erycine boids, which tend to be docile, slow-moving, and cute, so they are great for helping people get over a fear of snakes. Here's what I have:

6 Kenyan Sand Boas (all CB, different morphs)
5 Rosy Boas (all different localities, four CB, one WC in 2009)
2 Rubber Boas (one CB given to me, one WC in 2010)
1 Mexican Black Kingsnake (CB)
1 California Kingsnake (WC in 2005, my first pet snake)
1 California Red-sided Garter (WC in 2009)

I keep almost all of my snakes in large plastic tubs (40+ gallons for the kingsnakes) with deep substrates, but a couple live in glass tanks too. I tried going the naturalistic direction for my CA King for a while in a 70 gallon acrylic tank, but stopped that once I realized that he just spent 95% of his time jammed in this one spot between some rocks and his poop was really, really hard to clean out completely. I use that tank for some of my sand boas now.

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muskiemagnet
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Re: Keepers?

Post by muskiemagnet » March 14th, 2011, 10:40 pm

Berkeley Boone wrote:
muskiemagnet wrote:i don't keep herps myself, and i do not condone anyone for any lawful collecting.
Ben-
Just to clarify the point, not all herps that are kept are wild collected. Many of the individuals that people keep now are captive bred. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just making sure readers get the point that not every kid is just going out and collecting a herp for a pet. I know it happens though, don't misunderstand me.
muskiemagnet wrote:i am interested in herp conservation, so i would feel like a hypocrite for keeping any.
I think I understand your thoughts behind this statement, but to achieve conservation, sometimes you have to work with captive individuals. What about all the assurance colonies of the Asian turtle species that are being eaten out of existence? Or those wonderful Okeetee-phase corns that everyone drools over so much? (And I see Paul has added a response to this while I was preparing this one)
muskiemagnet wrote:if a population is strong (in your opinion) than keep one or two. if you believe that the future does not look good, even though protection is not enforced, leave them be.
In my opinion gopher tortoises have a very strong population in Georgia, but the fact is they are still protected and cannot be kept in captivity without the proper permits. Again, these are all points based toward people who may go out and collect something, not the people who go to PetsMart and buy it.

I'm just pointing out some things that should be clarified. Not trying to bust your chops, Ben!
--Berkeley
sorry for the lack of clarity. captive bred is the way to go as far as i'm concerned, and the "judgment calls", absolutely stay within the laws. i just got to the point that i really don't have any desire to keep anything i find. i would probably change my mind if i found an albino or other morph. i think it's great that some of you keep them as pets. like i said in my first reply, most of the cool stuff is taxed already by fragmentation and habitat loss here in wisconsin, and i choose to let them be for the health of the populations that are still here.

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muskiemagnet
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Re: Keepers?

Post by muskiemagnet » March 14th, 2011, 10:48 pm

Cole Grover wrote: I simply fail to see the two (keeping herps and conservation) as mutually exclusive. Care to elaborate?

-Cole
it appears that i am misunderstood by a few. keep them. enjoy them. you are right that keeping and conservation go hand in hand. without appreciation, conservation would never cross one's mind.

-ben

Bladeblaster
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Bladeblaster » March 15th, 2011, 12:12 am

Just to touch on the subject of WC herps, and I realise that there maybe strong views about this, and all veiws are welcome.

I do keep WC, I have a pair of WC Irian Jayas, and a pair of WC Ridleys Cave Racers. I agree that this must absolutely be done with the long term prospects of the species population in mind, but the trade in WC animals, when done properly, can and does contribute greatly to the conservation of the species and its habitat especially in the poorer countries of the world. If people are earning money from a habitat it is after all in their interests to keep that habitat.

Obviously though as I say this has to be done responsibly, and unfortunately this is not always the case. I also think that, understandably, people are very protective of their local flora and fauna. Being from the UK we are very limited in our herps, and the ones we do have are not exactly abundant, although depending on what reports you read do seem to be on the increase. So on UK forums, keeping of native herps, is a very very touchy subject. It's not illegal to collect grass snakes or adders, although a lot of people will tell you it is :roll: I would dearly love to keep a specimen pair of both species, but I certainly wouldn't shout about it on the UK forums. Although I am fairly well known, and people know me (I hope) to be a responsible keeper, I don;t think I would want to advertise to the masses a message of "hey go grab yourself some free herps" as thats what a lot of idiots will see it as.

P.S. sorry for posting in the wrong area, not fully explored the froum yet :crazyeyes:

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withalligators
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Re: Keepers?

Post by withalligators » March 15th, 2011, 12:11 pm

Like most, as a kid I brought everything I could home and put it in a cage for a while. My dad would let most of it go and the stuff he didn't usually died. As I got older and developed a semblance of responsibility I was able to acquire a quite large collection at one point. Before college I gave most of it away to good folks and now only own a boa I adopted after college. She has a 9' by 4' by 8' tall cage, and even that seems pretty small. Plus, I always have to get someone to look after her when I'm working out of the area for extended periods, which is 90% of my jobs. I know there are benefits to keeping CB herps and taking pressure off the wild pops, but I just can't say much for the life of a snake in a shoebox. The only kind of keeping that interests me anymore would be large outdoor enclosures keeping native herps and breeding for reintroduction. Such as timbers in NY where they have been extirpated from many areas that are now suitable for them. Or green snakes. Or Bog turtles. Tain't legal however.

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Chris Smith
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Chris Smith » March 15th, 2011, 12:32 pm

I consider myself a field person, but I have kept a fair number of species over the years. In my late teens/early 20's I was big into keeping/breeding and even made some decent money. Over the last couple years I have started to sell off my collection to allow for more 'field time'.

Solomon Island Ground Boas (Candoia paulsoni)
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and babies
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Neonate Russian Sand Boas (Eryx miliaris). This 'was' the second albino Russian sand boa EVER produced, but I lost it a few weeks back. They are tiny babies and tough to get feeding.
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W. Hognose (Heterodon nasicus) "Hypo"
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Cheers,
Chris

Paul White
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Paul White » March 15th, 2011, 1:16 pm

How are those ground boas? I've been mildly interested in them for years but I've never seen one in person--just pictures.

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Chris Smith
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Chris Smith » March 15th, 2011, 2:35 pm

@Paul-

Once the Candoia are feeding on rodents they make decent captives. Tend to be a little nippy.

Chris

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justinm
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Re: Keepers?

Post by justinm » March 16th, 2011, 6:57 pm

I keep a meager collection. I have them all housed in animal plastics rack systems. I think I keep them just to keep me sane for when I'm not herping. The only wild caught animals I have are rescues. I have three toed box turtle Psyon found on his nature preserve in Iowa, and a Fox snake a little boy brought to our herp club and it looked bad. He's ok now and mean, so is the turtle.

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Dusty Rhoads
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Dusty Rhoads » March 17th, 2011, 6:55 pm

Nir wrote:Dusty, this is for you, you inspired me to keep those a few years back and I must say I really enjoyed your article in HerpNation! In fact, I just ordered the complete suboc!

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Nice Bogeys! And thank you, twice! :thumb:

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Dusty Rhoads
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Dusty Rhoads » March 17th, 2011, 7:03 pm

Paul White wrote:but...now who's breeding trans pecos rats? :cry:
You're :cry: and I'm :beer:

LOL.

Paul White
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Paul White » March 17th, 2011, 7:35 pm

you can drink and cry at the same time. I've done so on numerous occasions :D

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Don Becker
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Don Becker » March 18th, 2011, 10:58 am

I have three toed box turtle Psyon found on his nature preserve in Iowa
I didn't find it there. Someone brought it in and dropped it off at the nature center.

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Joseph S.
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Re: Keepers?

Post by Joseph S. » March 24th, 2011, 2:29 pm

I believe that keeping reptiles or other animals gives an understanding for them that cannot be obtained from observation in the wild under normal circumstances. It allows for year to year, intimate 24/7 observation of individual animals and groups of them. Also-they are great for education/outreach. Few people have the opportunity to get close to reptiles in the wild and captive animals are often the first introduction and help people think about their wild relatives.

Of course, the same can be said that their is definetly information and understanding from observing animals in the wild that can never be obtained in captivity.

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monklet
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Re: Keepers?

Post by monklet » March 26th, 2011, 7:24 am

Yay! Just found this new forum! Wonderful!!! Hope we get a nice crowd here ...and looks like a great start with this excellent discussion.

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Re: Keepers?

Post by TJP » April 12th, 2011, 12:43 pm

ALT wrote:I keep a few species I really enjoy, as well as a few I really don't but were guilt trip "rescues" and good for outreach (Boa constrictor). Had quite a big, diverse collection at one point. It was the whole never allowed to keep certain animals growing up, now on my own and can do whatever I want thing. No morphs. No scaly paper weights. Nothing huge. Absolutely no herbivores. Rubber boas and Western hogs because they're good "gateway snakes" for doing outreach. Get the ophidiophobes hooked with small cute stuff and they realize hey, snakes aren't so bad. I'm convinced any person that can hold a rubber boa and not fall in love, or is not drawn in by the ridiculous upturned nose of a hognose snake does not have a soul. Mexican Pines and Eastern Coachwhips because they actually move every day and do stuff (and I can't legally own elapids in my state). Varanus acanthurus because they're all the fun of a monitor in an easy to house package. Not that much work either when you raise your own roaches. Keeping herps is what got me into herpetology and I don't think I could ever be truly happy without at least one snake in my house.

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If you still live in NYS and are the person I think you are, you would probably qualify for a permit to exhibit or for scientific purposes with your background if you want to keep elapids or other venomous species. NYSDEC Special licenses is who you want to talk to.

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Re: Keepers?

Post by Floridaherper » April 12th, 2011, 12:47 pm

Paul White wrote:some of mine I handle regularly, some I hardly ever do. My albino retic gets handled about once a week cause she's fun (but tiring, large snake), my florida kings get handled semi-regularly. Some don't mind it, some do. The ones that don't get handled a bit. The ones that do get left alone. That'd include my corn, my speckled king, my checkered garter and my house snakes.

And it seems to stimulate their bowels like non other :lol:

who made your cages btw?
Can you post a pic of your kings , plz?

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Re: Keepers?

Post by Paul White » April 12th, 2011, 7:05 pm

here's some pics

baby female albino fl king
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axanthic male and WS female mating, with the hypo female semi-visible under the log (got eggs from both the females yay!)
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normal male, possible het hypo, peanut butter and axanthic
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WS male
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my hypo female (old pic)
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female speckled
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I don't have any good current pictures of my favorite, a rescued normal fl king female (named chomper). here's an old one
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she's proof kings are hard to kill. I got her she weighed 40 grams or so, was at least 6 months old (probably older) and had lots of stuck shed...this was back in like late 09? Now she's 600 grams, can down a chick no problem, and is gravid (I think), bred by my normal poss het male. She was rescued from some damn fool kid that didn't want her and didn't feel like putting in the 15-20 minutes a week they take to provide a semi-basic level of care for.

most of these pictures are actually fairly old (not the mating one, that's just a few months old). I need to go through and get current pictures next time I weigh them (probably next week; I usually do weigh ins on the 15th or so, every other month).

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Re: Keepers?

Post by Zach_Lim » April 14th, 2011, 7:04 pm

Although I am more of a field herper, I keep a very small collection of Lampropeltis at home. As of right now, and probably about all I really want or need for the time being, I keep:
1.0 L.pyromelana (Huachuca mtn) '02
0.1 L.pyromelana (Santa Rita) '09
1.0 L.zonata multicincta (Kern county) '06
1.0 L.t.annulata '00

I've had my male pyro and annulata since middle school, and now graduating college this semester, they are still happy and healthy! All enjoy naturalistic terrariums.

Here is just a crappy pic or two of my Santa Rita pyro crusining around this evening:
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