A few milks from the collection

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DMong
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A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 7th, 2011, 8:34 pm

Here is a nice extreme Hondo holdback I produced in '09

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Him breeding a HUGE Falcon line ghost

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hypo/het snow male breeding a Lambert female amel

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Same female....

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The above extreme's huge mother.......

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an amel nelsoni youngster that is het for a recently discovered t-plus gene

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Here is it's awesome looking father(owned by my friend Shannon Brown). This bizarre gene was accidentally produced by Christos Skliris of France back in 2005. This gene does not seem to behave as a simple recessive colubrid trait normally does, and the gene acts in a more "co-dominant" fashion with the amel gene........very bizarre indeed!

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a very vanished amel Honduran female

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Another extremely vanished female

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A nice Bailey line adult ghost female that is featured in Terry Dunham's 12 page article in the 2011 annual "Reptiles USA" magazine.

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a 2006 amel female Hondo

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a hybino/100% het anery youngster from last year

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another vanished male amel (Norm Damm x Lambert)

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Tri-color hypo female

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an EXTREMELY rare Blanchard's milksnake (2010 male)

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The blanchardi female

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Here is the wild-caught blanchardi sire to the above hatchlings. This fine patternless specimen resides with my friend Shannon Brown. This extemely unique blanchardi was captured on a small chicken ranch just outside of Quintana Roo, Mexico on the Yucatan peninsula some years ago. The female he was bred with to produce the hatchlings I have was acquired from the Moscow Zoo in Russia a few years ago.

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couple extremes I produced in '09

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nice '07 Falcon ghost male (from extreme hypo sire)

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A nice ghost female he produced that I held back to breed back to the father in hopes of some extreme ghosts

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Vanished hypo from Don Shores stock

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Very aberrant 2007 hypo tangerine male

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awesome ghost hatchling

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double het snow intermediate "peach" phase

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2007 Falcon male extreme hypo

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The two breeding last year

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a cool photo of a het snow female

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extremely rare L.t. oligozona I produced many years ago in the early 90's

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cool little Scarlet king adult female

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Outstanding nelsoni from years ago....

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young amel Hondo

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An interesting closeup of the iridescence on the parietal scales of the head

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A nice Honduran portrait shot

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little guy hatching

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"almost" a two-headed amel. It died soon after due to the skull being under-developed and exposed.

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a few more extreme hypos

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thanks for looking everyone!

~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by Paul White » June 7th, 2011, 8:39 pm

heh. any word on those yellow floridas? This year's success has me eager to work that killer color into some hypos (and maybe albinos...).

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 7th, 2011, 8:49 pm

Paul White wrote:heh. any word on those yellow floridas? This year's success has me eager to work that killer color into some hypos (and maybe albinos...).
I think you will be in luck this year Paul!....sorry it took so damn long, but last year was pure crap as far as the floridana went. So now I have 2 years worth of people on the list that need them still..LOL!. But you are one of the first that will get them this year if all goes well. I had a few drop the other day, and will hopefully get another clutch from a young upcoming female in a few more weeks. It will be a while yet, but I think you will be able to snag them finally if all goes as expected my friend! :mrgreen:


~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by Paul White » June 7th, 2011, 9:24 pm

cool :) Thanks for the update. We all have bad years.

I'm hoping for 2 more king clutches myself. I got total bupkiss on the house snakes...frigging house snakes! Those are supposed to be hard NOT to breed! *$&$#@! I may cycle them and see what happens in 2-3 months. But hopefully I'll get one plain old het for nothing clutch nad one whitesided clutch that have yet to drop.

I gotta buy a bigger baby rack at this rate. I notice you don't have your everglades listed...you not working with them anymore?

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by Snake Junky » June 7th, 2011, 9:29 pm

That is an awesome collection. Are Hondos just as flighty as other milks, or are they pretty docile. I have a large female pueblo milk that is a complete freak savage. She attacks and tries to kill any male I have tried to breed her with. I have had her for about 7 years and no matter how much I handle her she remains very flighty and if she cant get away, she will chew on your arm. She is the only snake I have ever had that will chew like dog rather than bite and release like most snakes. I'm curious because I have always wanted a Honduran, but she has kind of ruined milks for me. Again, very nice collection. :thumb: Thanks for sharing.

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by Paul White » June 7th, 2011, 9:35 pm

I've known a few nice hondos...they're one of the few milks I sort of like (the black milk being the other...)

You'll get crazy individuals of any species sometimes. Come meet my crazy assed corn snake (CBB from Cherry and it is PRETTY). He acts like a frigging WC tree boa...

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 7th, 2011, 10:13 pm

Paul White wrote:cool :) Thanks for the update. We all have bad years.

I'm hoping for 2 more king clutches myself. I got total bupkiss on the house snakes...frigging house snakes! Those are supposed to be hard NOT to breed! *$&$#@! I may cycle them and see what happens in 2-3 months. But hopefully I'll get one plain old het for nothing clutch nad one whitesided clutch that have yet to drop.

I gotta buy a bigger baby rack at this rate. I notice you don't have your everglades listed...you not working with them anymore?
LOL!!, I know what ya mean, I have always heard that it's more of a challenge to not have House Snake's breed too..HAHA!!.........oh well, yes, S&*t certainly happens to all of us.

Good luck with your floridana bro. I'll let you know how things go later on in the season Paul.


~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 7th, 2011, 10:37 pm

Snake Junky wrote:That is an awesome collection. Are Hondos just as flighty as other milks, or are they pretty docile. I have a large female pueblo milk that is a complete freak savage. She attacks and tries to kill any male I have tried to breed her with. I have had her for about 7 years and no matter how much I handle her she remains very flighty and if she cant get away, she will chew on your arm. She is the only snake I have ever had that will chew like dog rather than bite and release like most snakes. I'm curious because I have always wanted a Honduran, but she has kind of ruined milks for me. Again, very nice collection. :thumb: Thanks for sharing.

Thank you!,.......

Well, hatchling Hondos are especially flighty and nervous as a rule, and will often musk and bite when held at all, BUT most get MUCH better as they age a bit and aren't so small and vulnerable, and most become very manageable after around 6 months to a year. They are ALL different, I have hatched absolute sweet-hearts right out of the egg before, and I have had several year old adults that remain very nervous through adulthood, although they don't bite or musk. But most that are of any size are pretty easy going. Most milk subspecies are generally like this though, it is just their nature until they grow some.

In short, I would recommend you getting one. They invariably become quite tolerant and easy-going with just a bit of time. Needless to say I just LOVE the ones that are laid-back from the very beginning, which is pretty uncommon, but it does happen.

Only the tiny hatchlings tend to bite and musk, anything over about 18-20 inches or so stops and becomes manageable. I have some very sweet easy-going one's here for sure.

Giving them nice tight, dark hides is crucial, especially when young, when you are viewed by them as the big nasty "monster" that is out to do them great bodily harm..LOL!. Once they get over that stage, it is generally smooth sailing with them from that point on.



~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 7th, 2011, 10:41 pm

Paul White wrote:I've known a few nice hondos...they're one of the few milks I sort of like (the black milk being the other...)

You'll get crazy individuals of any species sometimes. Come meet my crazy assed corn snake (CBB from Cherry and it is PRETTY). He acts like a frigging WC tree boa...

LOL!!,....In the early 90's I had a VERY unique W/C hypermelanistic Miami corn that was one of the nastiest snakes I have ever owned in over four decades. She was just freakin UN-BELIEVABLE!!!


~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by Zach_Lim » June 7th, 2011, 10:43 pm

Those blanchardi are outstanding

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by monklet » June 8th, 2011, 7:21 am

Mind-boggling stuff Doug! :shock: :shock: :shock: I'll take the 2010 male Blanchardi ...PM'ing ATM card and pin code, just make sure I get it fast!

btw, I have only two milks, male tangerine hondo and female black ...both very clingy and easy to handle since tiny, no muss, no fuss. Maybe I just lucked-out. :)

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 8th, 2011, 7:33 am

Zach_Lim wrote:Those blanchardi are outstanding

Thanks Zach!.........they are definitely some rare gems for sure.


~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by KingCam » June 8th, 2011, 7:33 am

Incredible O_O I didn't even know that many awesome variations existed!! The brown, red, and white one is seriously awesome! Looks like a cartoon or something

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 8th, 2011, 7:49 am

monklet wrote:Mind-boggling stuff Doug! :shock: :shock: :shock: I'll take the 2010 male Blanchardi ...PM'ing ATM card and pin code, just make sure I get it fast!

btw, I have only two milks, male tangerine hondo and female black ...both very clingy and easy to handle since tiny, no muss, no fuss. Maybe I just lucked-out. :)

HAHAA!!, too funny Brad!

Yeah, that's pretty much how I felt just prior to getting them myself..LOL!

Yes, their dispositions truly cover the entire board, and using slow, non-spooky handling techniques CERTAINY helps them become accustomed to a big "monster"....us humans..LOL!.

The tiny blanchardi at this stage are nervous little freakazoids!, but I was SOOOO happy to see their awesome feeding responses. They both even eat while in full blue!. Their heads have MUCH more uniquely pointed snouts than any of the other Latin forms do. They are indeed very fossorial, and well built for the task.

Yes, the gaigeae seem to be especially noted for being pretty easy-going, especially a bit later on. Glad yours are nice and laid back to enjoy. I handle a few favorites once in a while too, and most are a real pleasure to deal with.


~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 8th, 2011, 8:02 am

KingCam wrote:Incredible O_O I didn't even know that many awesome variations existed!! The brown, red, and white one is seriously awesome! Looks like a cartoon or something
Thanks man!,.........yes, I totally agree, the newly-discovered "milk chocolate colored" "t-plus" gene in those nelsoni are just INSANE!!......deep ruby-red eyes too!. The inheritence is whacko as well for colubrids. More will be known about it later this year when more are produced from different phenotype combinations. Right now it is thought to be allelic with the amel gene.

I cannot WAIT to produce some of those rare smokers..LOL!. :beer:



~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by KingCam » June 8th, 2011, 8:09 am

DMong wrote:
KingCam wrote:Incredible O_O I didn't even know that many awesome variations existed!! The brown, red, and white one is seriously awesome! Looks like a cartoon or something
Thanks man!,.........yes, I totally agree, the newly-discovered "milk chocolate colored" "t-plus" gene in those nelsoni are just INSANE!!......deep ruby-red eyes too!. The inheritence is whacko as well for colubrids. More will be known about it later this year when more are produced from different phenotype combinations. Right now it is thought to be allelic with the amel gene.

I cannot WAIT to produce some of those rare smokers..LOL!. :beer:



~Doug
If you happen to breed any more of the chocolate ones, and feel like selling a couple, don't forget me :P I want one!

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 8th, 2011, 10:41 am

Paul White wrote: I notice you don't have your everglades listed...you not working with them anymore?

Oops!,........I forgot to address your question regarding the Everglades, sorry.

No, as much as I like them, I have so many different projects going that I have really had to seriously step back and consider what I really MUST keep, and what I could afford to let go. I sold that awesome Everglades male to a lady at the Orlando Repticon show a good while back. Plus I have those killer newly-discovered "moonshine" morph locality-specific "greenish" rats to work with that originate from Northeastern S. Carolina.

ahh, what can ya do?, just can't keep everything as we both know..LOL!. I am going to be up to my eyeballs with hatchlings and hold-backs as it is, AND getting another four snakes next week! :roll:



~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by Paul White » June 8th, 2011, 10:47 am

Tell me about it. 11 hatchlings, another 7, and possibly another 10-12 eggs coming, just for kings...it's tons less than what you breed and I'm STILL glad I didn't produce many more, particularly since it's my first season really trying. I love doing it but I don't want to jump in and breed 200 babies my first season :) The logistics of it have been eye opening; I can tell I'll need a bigger incubator and baby racks for next year (I'm thinking of the 32 tub reptile basics rack to start with).

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 8th, 2011, 10:57 am

Paul White wrote:Tell me about it. 11 hatchlings, another 7, and possibly another 10-12 eggs coming, just for kings...it's tons less than what you breed and I'm STILL glad I didn't produce many more, particularly since it's my first season really trying. I love doing it but I don't want to jump in and breed 200 babies my first season :) The logistics of it have been eye opening; I can tell I'll need a bigger incubator and baby racks for next year (I'm thinking of the 32 tub reptile basics rack to start with).
I totally agree Paul. Glad you are thinking about things realistically too, because many definitely do NOT!. The true reality hits many people after the novelty of seeing cute little heads poking out of the eggs and dollar signs, then the hardship begins of housing, feeding, watering, space, and maintaining them well UNTIL they can be sold, shows, advertising, etc...

It definitely ain't all fun and games as you know, that's for darn sure...LOL!


~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 8th, 2011, 11:07 am

KingCam wrote:
DMong wrote:
KingCam wrote:Incredible O_O I didn't even know that many awesome variations existed!! The brown, red, and white one is seriously awesome! Looks like a cartoon or something
Thanks man!,.........yes, I totally agree, the newly-discovered "milk chocolate colored" "t-plus" gene in those nelsoni are just INSANE!!......deep ruby-red eyes too!. The inheritence is whacko as well for colubrids. More will be known about it later this year when more are produced from different phenotype combinations. Right now it is thought to be allelic with the amel gene.

I cannot WAIT to produce some of those rare smokers..LOL!. :beer:



~Doug
If you happen to breed any more of the chocolate ones, and feel like selling a couple, don't forget me :P I want one!
I will do that!. But since mine are very small still, it won't happen until 2013 or so.

Glad you like those!


~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by KingCam » June 8th, 2011, 11:11 am

DMong wrote: I will do that!. But since mine are very small still, it won't happen until 2013 or so.

Glad you like those!

~Doug
Totally worth the wait. I'm serious when I say I would like to own one.

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by Paul White » June 8th, 2011, 11:30 am

My long term goal is to do it for a living if I can (it's fun!) but I figure I'll have to find species I like that'll sell on average for 100-200ish per young (I don't see myself ever wanting to breed more than 400ish a year, and even that's spread out over 2-3 distinct seasons for different breeding cycles).

I've got 0 desire to produce 20,000 baby snakes EVER in a year cause how do you have any fun with that many? I want to settle on maybe 5-10 species that I like, maybe have one or two or three or four purely pet snakes...

If you've got a few fall breeders and a few spring breeders to spread it out--and it's your main job so you're not already fitting it in around a 50 hour office week--I can see it being managable in terms of time required and FUN. It wouldn't make me rich but I make less than 30,000/year now so I'm not rich anyhow :lol:

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 8th, 2011, 11:50 am

KingCam wrote:
DMong wrote: I will do that!. But since mine are very small still, it won't happen until 2013 or so.

Glad you like those!

~Doug
Totally worth the wait. I'm serious when I say I would like to own one.
Sounds good!.........I just left you a PM


cheers, ~Doug

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Re: A few milks from the collection

Post by DMong » June 11th, 2011, 8:23 pm

Paul White wrote:My long term goal is to do it for a living if I can (it's fun!) but I figure I'll have to find species I like that'll sell on average for 100-200ish per young (I don't see myself ever wanting to breed more than 400ish a year, and even that's spread out over 2-3 distinct seasons for different breeding cycles).

I've got 0 desire to produce 20,000 baby snakes EVER in a year cause how do you have any fun with that many? I want to settle on maybe 5-10 species that I like, maybe have one or two or three or four purely pet snakes...

If you've got a few fall breeders and a few spring breeders to spread it out--and it's your main job so you're not already fitting it in around a 50 hour office week--I can see it being managable in terms of time required and FUN. It wouldn't make me rich but I make less than 30,000/year now so I'm not rich anyhow :lol:
I certainly know what you mean there bro!. I am certainly no big-scale breeder like BHB or Mark Bell, but it is about all I can deal with in my present situation. I very much agree with what you said there too. Being spread out over the year instead of a big boat-load all at one time will be much easier to manage. I sure as heck don't want to produce thousands a year either, it would just be too much for me to handle comfortably. Even as it is now I have to allow for a good number of "hold back" animals on top of the bunch I already have. It never seems to get easier..LOL!

best of luck with the endeavor man! :beer:


~Doug

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