see through egg update

Captive care and husbandry.

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joecop
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Joined: June 19th, 2010, 8:31 pm

see through egg update

Post by joecop »

Things are looking good for these to hatch. You can clearly see them move around in the eggs now. Pretty darn cool!
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Nshepard
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Re: see through egg update

Post by Nshepard »

Damn, ain't seen anything like that. I've seen photos of eggs with clear patches. Well, your female that laid that clutch is in need of some mad amounts of calcium and perhaps should not breed next year. Hopefully the hatchlings do well.
joecop
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Re: see through egg update

Post by joecop »

Yeah, she was given calcium ever since she laid these this year. I actually started to give it to all my breeding females after this clutch. Clutch is pretty damn cool though!!

Joe
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sdFH'er
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Re: see through egg update

Post by sdFH'er »

Very unique opportunity to watch development. Thank you for sharing!
sonorandesertman
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Re: see through egg update

Post by sonorandesertman »

Extremely interesting. I bet it has been super cool to watch these little dudes and dudettes develop. Thanks a lot for the look at these. Later. sdm.
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monklet
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Re: see through egg update

Post by monklet »

Amazing :shock: 8-) thanks for the update. :thumb: Hope you follow-up on the hatching.
Darkhorse
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Re: see through egg update

Post by Darkhorse »

I witnessed that same phenomenon in Eumeces in the 80's. I had found a female guarding her clutch under a large rock decorating a planter area. I collected the eggs to appreciate hatching something. About half way through incubation they went clear. Neonates hatched fine and were released.
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KingCam
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Re: see through egg update

Post by KingCam »

Fascinating
joecop
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Re: see through egg update

Post by joecop »

Well, guess I got excited too early. I am sorry to report that both of them died in the egg. I thought maybe I messed with them too much trying to document and photograph the rare event, however they both were very under-developed and kinked up when I examined them. The color on both was all there but they were probably lacking something needed (like calcium) and were doomed from the begining. I had noticed they had not changed position for two days so I poked the eggs a little (which prior to this would make them move a tiny bit at least) and nothing. (They were on day 86 and should have hatched between 70-75 days at 78-79 degrees, so I was starting to feel things were not good.) Then I cut them out to find them dead. Well, it was a cool experience to share and I will be giving her calcium supplements next year so I probably won't see it again.


Joe
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KingCam
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Re: see through egg update

Post by KingCam »

Sorry to hear that, man. What a shame :(
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sdFH'er
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Re: see through egg update

Post by sdFH'er »

It's always a shame to lose a clutch, but at the very least you got to witness something very unique and learn from it. Thank you again for sharing those pics with us and I'm sorry to hear that they didn't make it.
joecop
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Re: see through egg update

Post by joecop »

Thanks for the kind words. It does suck, but I am so glad people got to see some of what I witnessed. Very cool to see.


Joe
Mark Hazel
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Re: see through egg update

Post by Mark Hazel »

I had the same thing happen with a clutch of 3 CB zonata multifasciata eggs in 2007 or so--the only time I've seen that in kingsnakes. The general look of the eggs was the same as yours.

In my case, all 3 babies were normal size, and the one that hatched was healthy & normal & grew up fine. 2 were dead-in-egg, which I found when I opened their eggs a few days after the first crawled out.

So, I would say if you have kingsnake eggs like that then it is not certain all their babies will be abnormal or dead.

--Mark
joecop
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Re: see through egg update

Post by joecop »

Mark, this same animal laid a clutch last year with two good eggs that looked like this, but not quite as clear. One did hatch out and is an awesome male that I still have. This is why I had hope for these, but as time went by and over the 80 day mark, I had a bad feeling. I agree, they can be like these eggs and make it, just not this time. Hopefuly with some calcium supplementation, she will lay normal eggs next year. Cool to see eggs like this, but I would rather her lay normal eggs and have all of them hatch.


Joe
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Eric East
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Re: see through egg update

Post by Eric East »

I just saw this thread for the 1st time and all I can say is wow! I'm sorry they didn't make it but, man, that was very cool! Thanks for posting your experience!
mikemike
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Re: see through egg update

Post by mikemike »

I'm with Eric on this one. That sucks about them not hatching, but what an experience to actually be able to witness. I wonder how many eggs come out that way in the wild due to calcium deficiencies and what not.
Aaron
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Re: see through egg update

Post by Aaron »

Be careful with the calcium. I had some L. m. "thayeri" eggs that looked exactly like that one time. I was able to consult Lloyd Lemke(R.I.P.), a large scale commercial breeder. He said to give the female 1cc liquid calcium/D3(human grade from a healthfood store) before brumation and 1 cc after brumation, by injecting it into a frozen/defrosted mouse. For no particular reason I decided more is better and I gave her about 4 mice injected with 1cc each before brumation and 4 more after brumation. The following eggs had such thick shells that many of the neonates couldn't cut out and the ones that could only made one tiny slit that they could barely poke their heads through. They survived but I had to assist-cut all of them out.

I don't know how much powdered herp grade calcium that would translate into but if you haven't given them too much yet I would consider getting the human grade liquid stuff and just do maybe 1/2cc before brumation and 1/2 to 1cc after brumation.
condyle
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Re: see through egg update

Post by condyle »

I had that happen on early experiments with water/vermiculite ratios. I'm just wondering if you were a little heavy on the water side? I can have transluscent patchs with even 50/50 ratios. I use a rather dry medium with great results.
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