Apalachicola in July?

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robert
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Apalachicola in July?

Post by robert »

All:

I have just been amazed by the photos of ANF. So many great photos of so many great herps! So great that I am trying to add ANF to my July trip to the Florida Keys (to visit my brother). It turns out that a multi-city trip that includes Jacksonville adds less than $100 to my round trip Boston to Fort Lauderdale. I would rent a car from Jacksonville and drive.

That said, how could I do road riding in mid to late July? How late could I ride at night and is there any reason to get up early? And if the answer is yes (to some or all of the above), would anyone be willing to share hints about general regions/habitats? The parks is very large and the habitat is hard to decipher from Google satellite (at least to those of us who have never been on the ground in that part of FL)? I would love to see Kings, Corals, and Rat snakes.

Thanks for any help.

Robert
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Greg Theos
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Re: Apalachicola in July?

Post by Greg Theos »

Hi Robert,

Start praying for rain now. Yes, get up early and roadcruise til late. You're gonna have a lot of time to kill between 11am and 6pm since nothing good will be moving, so plan for that.

Sounds like you have some lofty goals. The odds of you finding a Kingsnake, or even a Coral snake there are very, very low. In the 10 years I have been hitting that place, I have found but a single, true ANF kingsnake and 2 Corals. Corns and Gray rats can be found cruising at dusk/night just about anywhere throughout the forest-IF they are moving good. I found a corn snake under some really hot tin there 2 days ago.

The ANF can be a terribly boring and frustrating place to herp if luck (i.e. RAIN) is not on your side. It's also a place where most snakes are not found in large numbers. I suspect the only snakes you will see in fair numbers will be cottonmouths and pigmies. Not trying to sound like the grim reaper, I just want you to lower your expectations. Relax. You will see so much stuff in S. FL that it won't matter anyway. Good luck and report back to us.

-Greg
Carl D. May
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Re: Apalachicola in July?

Post by Carl D. May »

Greg Theos wrote:Hi Robert,
The ANF can be a terribly boring and frustrating place to herp if luck (i.e. RAIN) is not on your side. It's also a place where most snakes are not found in large numbers. I suspect the only snakes you will see in fair numbers will be cottonmouths and pigmies. Not trying to sound like the grim reaper, I just want you to lower your expectations. Relax. You will see so much stuff in S. FL that it won't matter anyway. Good luck and report back to us.
-Greg

It is true, the ANF can be terribly boring and frustrating. In the almost 30 years that I have been making trips there I have learned that herping from noon till dusk during the hot months of the year is usually not too productive. Plus the deer flies make the heat seem easy by comparison.
But rather than spending a good part of the day working hard to see maybe a random black racer, I usually will drive an hour north towards Marianna and canoe Spring Creek or the Chipola River. There is at least one canoe outfitter right on the river where you can rent a canoe rather cheaply.
Common finds are loggerhead musk turtles,

Image

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yellow bellied sliders,

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Barbour's map turtles,

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and 'Mobile' cooters.

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You might also see these guys but they are hard to capture for photos. Gulf coast spiney softshell turtle.

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If you are really having a good day you might see one of these...

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or more.

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So yes, the ANF can be boring and tough during the heat of the day but you are not limited when you are in that part of Florida. After a few hours on the Chipola (go swimming, the water is dang cold!) you will be ready for a night of road cruising.
robert
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Re: Apalachicola in July?

Post by robert »

Greg and Carl:

Thanks for the responses. Are you politely trying to tell me to stay in south Florida? And if so, do you have any general suggestions? I usually spend the day before and after I go to the keys on the main road in Everglades National Park or Shark Valley/Big Cypress valley. I have seen some great herps, but no Corals or Kings.

The photos of the creek look great and if I venture to ANF, I will certainly spend the midday there. Its just that I get to spend only a few days per year in Fl and try to squeeze a year's worth of fun in those few road rides.....

Robert
Carl D. May
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Re: Apalachicola in July?

Post by Carl D. May »

Robert,
The Main Park Road (MPR) of the Everglades National Park (ENP) is pretty much a can't miss location this time of year even though it is still incredibly dry down here in south Florida. You should easily see the usual suspects: cottonmouths, ribbon snakes, Florida water snakes, garters and so on. Closer to Flamingo you will see mangrove water snakes along with hybrids between them and the Fla. water snake. Also, the MPR has some of the red phase green water snakes and I have found some that were really pretty.
The pythons seem to come out later in the night so if road cruising slows down after a while give it a bit more time and you are likely to find one out on the road. I have been hunting/observing in the ENP quite a bit over the past ten years and I can honestly say that I have found more pythons crossing the road in certain sections of the MPR than I have corn snakes and yellow rat snakes.
Finding a 'brooksi' looking kingsnake in the ENP is not out of the question but not a sure thing either. I have found a lot of them down near Flamingo and also between the Pine Flatwoods and the Dwarf Cypress Forest sections of the MPR.
Just a word of advice about the ENP though...do not carry any collecting equipment in your car. If you get stopped and that stuff is in the passenger part of your car you are likely to get fined. I keep what little of such things I carry in my trunk and when I get stopped by the rangers I show it to them and allow them to check my car out. I have never been given a hard time at all by those guys but they have all said that even a single cloth bag could make for trouble.
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Josh Holbrook
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Re: Apalachicola in July?

Post by Josh Holbrook »

Carl D. May wrote:Robert,
The Main Park Road (MPR) of the Everglades National Park (ENP) is pretty much a can't miss location this time of year even though it is still incredibly dry down here in south Florida. You should easily see the usual suspects: cottonmouths, ribbon snakes, Florida water snakes, garters and so on. Closer to Flamingo you will see mangrove water snakes along with hybrids between them and the Fla. water snake. Also, the MPR has some of the red phase green water snakes and I have found some that were really pretty.
The pythons seem to come out later in the night so if road cruising slows down after a while give it a bit more time and you are likely to find one out on the road. I have been hunting/observing in the ENP quite a bit over the past ten years and I can honestly say that I have found more pythons crossing the road in certain sections of the MPR than I have corn snakes and yellow rat snakes.
Finding a 'brooksi' looking kingsnake in the ENP is not out of the question but not a sure thing either. I have found a lot of them down near Flamingo and also between the Pine Flatwoods and the Dwarf Cypress Forest sections of the MPR.
Just a word of advice about the ENP though...do not carry any collecting equipment in your car. If you get stopped and that stuff is in the passenger part of your car you are likely to get fined. I keep what little of such things I carry in my trunk and when I get stopped by the rangers I show it to them and allow them to check my car out. I have never been given a hard time at all by those guys but they have all said that even a single cloth bag could make for trouble.
Carl's right on all that. For pythons you'll want to cruise at least until midnight - after 11pm is the "witching hour."
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Greg Theos
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Re: Apalachicola in July?

Post by Greg Theos »

I was just trying to give you some honest information to help YOU make an informed decision. You will probably see more snakes in a single 1 hour pass through the ENP than you will in a week of herping the ANF. But, hey...for selfish reasons, I would love for you to come to the ANF so we could collaborate. You never know, it could rain and change everything. Let me know, I will gladly show you around.

-Theos
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