Anybody have luck using cardboard as artificial cover? I have lots of boxes after moving. Got a few pieces in the forest, but no luck yet. They hold moisture nice.

Dave

Yes, but it won't last as long as a board or tin...it's kind of like carpet in the way it holds moisture, so it might not be good real early (except for salamanders), but it's great after everything else dries out.

Dave, I've found many herps under cardboard throughout the years. I've never layed AC, but I certainly would never pass on flipping a nice thick piece of cardboard. Seems like that's the only ac one comes across in Norcal. That's probably why it's my favorite AC. Just give the cardboard a little time. Maybe a few months.

edit- didn't realize Senor Hubbs already replied

I never gave this much thought... off to Craigslist

Ditto the reply of RLewisH. I always pass up pieces of cardboard when collecting AC to "board out" a field. Now I'll give it a try especially to some spots that I've gotta do a good deal of walking to. Can't really remember ever finding anything of note under cardboard however.

reako45

sorry, but I think it stinks. I've only found one helleri under cardboard before and that's after flipping every dang piece I come across. I dries out before the boards and disintegrates twice as fast. I think it looks worse (more like a dump) than discretely placed and hidden boards. If you want gummies then go for it, but try to keep it as discrete as your boards.

Try using Gorilla Glue to glue several sheets together.

I've been considering laying out some ac in my area. Problem is, all of the land is either private or it is parkland. And I'm not a landowner. My question is: where can one lay ac without being in violation of littering or trespassing. Is anyone familiar with the legalities involved?

call your local and state authorities and ask for a complete list of rules and regulations..............

I found a bunch of stuff last year under cardboard!
This King was under a piece of cardboard that had plastic pieces on it.

California Kingsnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
This nightsnake was found under an empty 12pk soda box.

Nightsnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
This is the box. A few weeks later flipped it again..

12pk Box Covering a Huge NorPac by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
This Northern Pacific was under it, and it fit perfectly!

Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
Do not pass up the cardboard!
-Nick

herper79, you posted the kingsnake pic twice.

I've found some interesting stuff under cardboard, but not usually herps (other than lizards). Hmmm... I think I've got a couple of empty boxes....

Sounds like cardboard works better in NorCal than SoCal. That's because in NorCal, EVERY object seems to have at least one herp under it. And that's because in NorCal it rains at least once in a while and the rain doesn't almost evaporate before it hits the ground

I would love to take the entire NorCal gang flipping cardboard down here in SoCal after the end of what is shaping up to be a rainy season without a single significant rain event. I'd bet we'd find ZIP, not even ants

Just having some fun ...

Robert

Thanks, but no thanks, Robert Maybe I'd go down to noose lizards in the desert. As far as this season goes, I think that you guys need to head back up here Bring on Joshrobnichooks!

Ha ha, Hey Robert, Ill sell you a rabbit's foot for $20. That should help you.
Ask other SoCal guys who herp up here. It is not as easy as you think, and not as diverse. Our season for snakes is also shorter. and blah blah blah
Nick

Now hold up a sec! Was that MY helleri that was under the card board that day that we stopped for EVERY piece of cardboard on the side of the road!? If so mister, I think that was my find, and you have yet to find a snake under cardboard! If so... Well congratulations!


Cardboard is a disaster... Places I've herped, the cardboard was dumped last summer. The stuff is already impossible to flip after one flip. And it really looks bad on the land. Personally I hate to see great herping places trashed with cardboard, because the stuff never stays in one spot long enough either. Just do it right with boards and tin.... I found a Helleri, as well as a ring neck... But that's it. The stuff is either too wet, and it tears into a disaster, or way to dry. Still flip it. But don't go trash places with it.... Just my two cents...

-Chris

We had nearly an inch of rain in some parts of san Diego county last mon!
We flipped 35 snakes yesterday, and have seen more than that on the 3 or 4 previous weekends. You just don't know where or how to look; flipping is not something you can master over 3 or 4 seasons and a few cozy nights monitoring the forums....

And for the record, I am not saying to lay out cardboard, I just flip it when I see it.
Nick

Don't waste your time laying out cardboard...........
Flip it when you find it; but if you are going to the trouble of setting up a line; use wood!

My point was that cardboard is particularly bad when things are dry. I take it you didn't flip any of the 35 snakes under cardboard, right?



The main limiting factor with flipping I see is having a large enough number of boards, finding a productive piece of land to put them (legally), and waiting long enough for them to produce. Neither requires much or any skill. The rest, choice of boards, placement, when to flip them, etc., can certainly be learned by monitoring this forum or maybe reading Brian Hubbs's books. I did.

Robert

RobertH: You forgot the most important part - having AC that nobody else checks...

And as for cardboard, it is what it is...a piece of AC, and at times it will work, and at other times it won't, just like everything else. I have found herps under the right conditions under the following objects:

rocks, boards, tin, cardboard, carpet, bottles, cans, newspaper, plastic, foam rubber, mattresses, box springs, refrigerators, tires, bark, logs, dirt, and many others...it's all about the conditions and what you have to work with, and how well you understand the habitat and the animals.

I would never lay out cardboard, unless I had to walk a long ways and wanted "something" on the ground when I got there. It just doesn't last very long. It's worse than carpet.

There is way more skill involved than you would guess. There are many things you can do to get your AC to produce faster...... And none of thAt I do has ever been posted here; or printed in any book. Practical application, trial and error, years of practice, and numeroûs other little tricks can get you a board line that will produce in 2 weeks, instead of 2 years.

Sorry, typing on my phone.

Like spraying the underside of the AC with snake musk? Placing it over a rodent burrow? Removing some of the thick grass from under the object? Placing AC near where you found a shed? Tying lizards to little stakes under the AC? Don't anyone try that...I was just kidding.

You had me wondering on that last one... Burrows and grass removal and shed stuff I do... But lizards on stakes and snake musk spray!? Really!? Why not lizard scent sprays?

The musk thing was not a joke...

.... I am lost for words.... I don't even know how you would milk a snake of its musk...

You just let the female kingsnake (which is usually the one that musks all over you) musk in a jar and add some water and sheds and crap, and blend (or stir, we don't want to use the expensive blender for this )...then put in a spray bottle. It works...trust me...
Or, you could just walk the female over to a board that NEVER produces and let her musk the underside of it...depends on how much mileage you want out of musk.

I cannot believe I am saying this.... But I am so trying this!

Hivemind

Hivemind.... That's a new one.... Still can't... decipher? it...

one Rosy Boa.

I've heard of this, but was under the impression it only works if the lizards are virgins.

More seriously, I've found that cardboard seems to attract mostly small snakes, esp. Contia. I've never found anything much larger than that under cardboard.

JimM

And don't forget the safflower seed.

I started herping back in the 50s in Tucson and it was always a joy to find a wildcat dump site near somewhat isolated subdivisions. But even more exciting than that was to find a piece of cardboard which had blown out into the desert and lodged usually under a creosote bush and stayed there for a couple of rainstorms. They would usually be good producers, but usually only for the small basic herps such as Coleonyx, Leptotyphlops and Hypsiglena. Scorpions and centipedes were also common. I did catch a juvi Masticophis flagellum and an adult Gambelia.
I never thought of laying AC, but certainly wish I had done it. I would lay several lines and compare them. I would lay double wall cardboard as it probably lasts longer. I would soak them well with water so they would start conforming to the ground sooner and after an appropriate time, paint some white and some black to see if heat absorption would be relevant for different times of the year. I imagine that some of you expert boarders already have the answers. Please PM me if you care to share what you have found as I am now legally blind and I'm afraid my herping days are over. This forum certainly has kept my herping interests alive. Thanks, Art

Hmm. I've seen where someone has been laying down a scrap of tarp, then a bigger scrap of cardboard on that, then an even bigger scrap of carpet on top of all. I'm curious to see how that'll function in the desert, for small snakes like Tantilla and Sonora.

Cheers,
Jimi

After my initial inquiry on March 3rd, I put out a few cardboard boxes around our house in an Oak Woodland in Northern Monterey County. Lots of Coast Live Oak leaf litter around our house. I raked back to mostly bare earth, placed a few boxes and covered the cardboard with leaves.




We've had sporadic showers since then.

Good rain two nights ago. The cardboard is soaked and has to be picked up on two sides. Today March 19th, I found the first Slender Salamander.





Slender Salamanders are definitely pretty common up here in the Oak Woodlands of Monterey County. After a rain, you can find several under cover. So, nothing extraordinary at this point, but we'll see what else shows up. After moving, I have lots of boxes.

I have difficulty distinguishing the species here. Assuming Gabilan Mountains Slender Salamander ( Batrachoseps gavilanensis) based on the rear toe length. Comments?


Dave

Brian, Lizards won't work, but mice...oh yeah!!!