Let's play....Name that Skink!

[spinifer]

Ok test your ID skills on 10 Delmarva specimens.

Skink 1



Skink 2




Skink 3




Skink 4




Skink 5




Skink 6




Skink 7




Skink 8




Skink 9




Skink 10

[Carl Brune]

1- fasciatus
2- fasciatus
3- fasciatus
4- fasciatus
5- fasciatus
6- fasciatus
7- fasciatus
8- laticeps
9- fasciatus
10- fasciatus

[bobassetto]

1. Mario
2. Veronica
3. Gertrude
4. Dracula
5. Pat
6. Pearlie
7. Carmela
8. Nick
9. Vinnie
10. Theresa

[millside]

wow, I don't know, but will be interested to learn about the differences,
they all look the same to me, so every skink is a five lined until I can learn the details.

[Kelenken]

Carl, could you talk about what field marks you're using? I only know fasciatus, and wouldn't have any idea how to identify laticeps, so it'd be helpful

1- fasciatus
2- fasciatus
3- fasciatus
4- fasciatus
5- fasciatus
6- fasciatus
7- fasciatus
8- laticeps
9- fasciatus
10- fasciatus

[will lattea]

Carl, could you talk about what field marks you're using? I only know fasciatus, and wouldn't have any idea how to identify laticeps, so it'd be helpful

Without giving too much away for the game, it's a matter of one different scale on their face.

I agree with Carl on the IDs. I can't imagine how many skinks you had to chase to catch 10 haha.

[spinifer]

There is one screwball in there, that I was positive of ID in the field, but now question based on the limited photographic evidence.

As you can see, the scalation that is typically used (labials & post labials) is variable within the species. However there is one character that I think I see on one that I have never seen on the other.

Carl, I too would like to hear your explanation or anyone else who would like to take a guess.

[Carl Brune]

So yes, I'm going by the labials and post labials.

Upper labials (between rostral and first upper labial that reaches the eye, exclusive):
4 -> fasciatus
5 -> laticeps
This is far from 100%. In Ohio, it seems like ~15% of fasciatus have 5 on one side. I've never seen one with 5 on both sides, but I'm sure if I play this game long enough it will happen. You definitely want to photograph both sides.

Post Labials - scales in front of the ear opening, behind the upper labials. Disregard tiny scales.
2 larger, roughly equal-sized scales -> fasciatus
none, or 1 larger scale -> laticeps

I'm calling #7 a 4/5 upper-labial fasciatus.

I've read that young laticeps may show 7 lines, not sure where. I have no first-hand experience with that. I can see that on #8 and (perhaps) on #7.

There are also supposed to be some differences in the scalation on the toes, but I've never pursued that.

[heavenscloud]

Nate, are there any good articles that compare the morphology of these skinks? Also, do we know for a fact that fasciatus and laticeps are reproductively isolated?

[KingCam]

Can someone maybe put this into terms I can understand without having a degree? I want to be able to understand how to tell the difference, but I'm not savvy on the terminology.

[spllogics]

http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/outreach/keys/L06.html
http://www.virginiaherpetologicalsociet ... id_-_8.htm

[KingCam]

http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/outreach/keys/L06.html
http://www.virginiaherpetologicalsociet ... id_-_8.htm

Thank you

[kyle loucks]

I'm gonna post all the skinks we found and took time getting good id pics...

[spinifer]

Upper labials (between rostral and first upper labial that reaches the eye, exclusive):
4 -> fasciatus
5 -> laticeps
This is far from 100%. In Ohio, it seems like ~15% of fasciatus have 5 on one side. I've never seen one with 5 on both sides, but I'm sure if I play this game long enough it will happen. You definitely want to photograph both sides.

Yes and I have had broadheads with 4 labials on one side (no pictures unfortunately though). But lets review the 10 skinks:

Skink #1,2,3,5,6,&10 have 4 labials on each side of the head. This should be enough to conclude fasciatus

#8 has 5 labials on each side of the head, therefore laticeps.

#9 has 4 on the right, 3 on the left - fasciatus
#4 has 4 on the right, 5 on the left - this alone is an inconclusive trait
#7 has 5 on the right, 4 on the left - this alone is an inconclusive trait

Post Labials - scales in front of the ear opening, behind the upper labials. Disregard tiny scales.
2 larger, roughly equal-sized scales -> fasciatus
none, or 1 larger scale -> laticeps

I used to think post labials were a better character than labials, but now I am starting to notice some variation making it less clear. Again lets review:

#1,2,3,4,5,6,9,10 have 2 postlabials on both sides of the head - fasciatus

#8 has 1 small postlabial on the right, but 2 on the left however they are very small, therefore likely laticeps

#7 has 1 medium postlabial on the left, however on the right, I am not sure if there is 1 or 2 postlabials, the upper scale is extra large and might not be a postlabial but instead split from one of the other scales - for me this is an inconclusive trait

I'm calling #7 a 4/5 upper-labial fasciatus.

This is where we differ.

I've read that young laticeps may show 7 lines, not sure where. I have no first-hand experience with that. I can see that on #8 and (perhaps) on #7.

#8 clearly shows 7 stripes, therefore laticeps. You can see 3 lateral stripes in the photo. 3 lateral stripes + 3 lateral stripes on the other side of the body + 1 mid-dorsal stripe = 7.

#7 to me, also shows a third lateral stripe, although it is very low.

Finally a size reference for #7.



I was certain in the field #7 was laticeps. I continue to lean towards laticeps because of the 7 stripes (but is it really 7 stripes), but the postlabials are really bothersome. This specimen might have to be Plestiodon sp.

Any further thoughts?

[Carl Brune]

I agree that #7 is ambiguous. I don't see the extra stripes, but it looks pretty big to have a blue tail...

[kyle loucks]

I agree that #7 is ambiguous. I don't see the extra stripes, but it looks pretty big to have a blue tail...

I concur on this one.

[spinifer]

but it looks pretty big to have a blue tail...

I thought so too.

[kyle loucks]

another 4/5 that I had trouble with in the field due to aging eyes.

[bobassetto]

"I CONCUR"?????........REALLY??.......

[kyle loucks]

[spinifer]

looks like a five-lined.

[kyle loucks]

Ok, I will submit it as such...

[spinifer]

no full body pics, or size reference?

[kyle loucks]

I didnt really question it as it was normal 5 lined size... just lookin labials...

[spinifer]

Give this one a try - from MD eastern shore.

[Mike VanValen]

Five labials on each side say laticeps. I'm still learning with these, but it seems there are 2 post-labials. So maybe undetermined?

[Carl Brune]

Well, I see 5 upper labials on each side, but 2 large post labials on each side and it lacks the 6/7th lines on the sides. I would lean towards fasciatus, but can't be 100% sure. Go catch some more from that litter...

[spinifer]

Well, I see 5 upper labials on each side, but 2 large post labials on each side and it lacks the 6/7th lines on the sides. I would lean towards fasciatus, but can't be 100% sure. Go catch some more from that litter...

That is my inclination as well. We have already documented both laticeps and fasciatus from this site. All the broadhead juveniles I have found so far have the additional stripes, but I am not sure that is always the case. I should have counted the mid-dorsal scale rows on this one.