The Great Northwest Herp ID Contest: Week 2

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jonathan
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The Great Northwest Herp ID Contest: Week 2

Post by jonathan »

Weekly Northwest herp identification contest #2 is the most difficult ID bane of every Northwest salamander hunter. Is that larval/neotenic giant a Dicamptodon tenebrosus or a Dicamptodon copei?

Since this is such a tough one, I’ve tried to limit my selections to generally clear photos of salamanders in the water. I included just one out-of-water shot because it’s one of my favorites. Guess away!


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TravisK
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Re: The Great Northwest Herp ID Contest: Week 2

Post by TravisK »

1. D. tenebrosus

2. D. copei

3. D. tenebrosus

4. D. copei

5. D. copei

6. D. tenebrosus

7. D. copei (this one seems odd to me though)

8. D. tenebrosus

9. D. tenebrosus
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Fieldnotes
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Re: The Great Northwest Herp ID Contest: Week 2

Post by Fieldnotes »

1. Coast
2. Copes
3. Coast
4. Copes
5. Copes
6. Coast
7. Coast
8. Coast
9. Coast

I mainly look at the gill, tail fin, and overall bulk.
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TravisK
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Re: The Great Northwest Herp ID Contest: Week 2

Post by TravisK »

And of coarse we assume jonathan has correct IDs ;) :crazyeyes: ;)
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jonathan
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Re: The Great Northwest Herp ID Contest: Week 2

Post by jonathan »

TravisK wrote:And of coarse we assume jonathan has correct IDs ;) :crazyeyes: ;)
:lol: HEY! :evil:


Well, I do have the advantages of knowing the exact locale, habitat, and supplementary pictures for each of these finds.

Plus I've posted some of them before and had the benefits of getting corrected in two of those pics from week 1. :beer:


But to be honest, the original idea for these posts came when I was using a couple of these pictures to break down to a visitor exactly how to tell a copei from a tenebrosus...and as I sent the PM I thought...damn, if I'm wrong on this I'll look like and idiot....what's a sneaky way to get a bunch of FHF experts to check my conclusions for me. :thumb:

So I'm watching the consensus closely before giving my answers. :D I'll tell ya'all if I get one of my original assumptions wrong...but you'll have to trust me on that.
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jonathan
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Re: The Great Northwest Herp ID Contest: Week 2

Post by jonathan »

And my verdict is that Fieldnotes has nailed them all again...though that #4 may always be subject to some doubt!


1. Found in Tyron Creek in the Portland area, a spot unlikely to have copei. Big bushy gills, thickish legs, narrow tapering tail, rounded snout.

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2. From Clatsop County, one of my favorite finds ever. Climbed over very difficult-to-navigate log-strewn hills in classic Coast Range undergrowth, fought my way to a tiny stream, searched under a huge stump overhang to find a quiet, hidden pool just above a riffle...and found this nice adult Copei, an adult tailed frog, and two juvenile giants all within a couple feet!

The most obvious copei I've ever found - slender body, slenderish limbs, flattish end to snout, gills only bushy on ends, tail rounds off abruptly at end, and the color just looks copei to me for some reason.

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3. This was from Forest Park, another spot only Coastals are known from. Very bushy gills, clearly rounded snout, thickish legs.

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4. Another of my favorite finds, and a tough one. I found it in the Columbia Gorge in a small trickle of water off to the side of a waterfall, so shallow that the salamander was partially exposed. Slenderish body (but not too slender), flattish snout (but uncertain), tail seems rounded on end, sparse gills (but photo poor and possibly starting to transform). If it's a copei (which I think it is), it's the biggest one I've ever seen, close to 7". Possibly a hybrid?

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5. The clearest-looking copei I've ever found in the Gorge. Slender body, slender limbs, squared snout, sparse gills, and copei-like feel to the coloration. Found in a quiet pool in a stream, with a clear tenebrosus found in the rapids just 5 feet away.

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6. Found in southern Tillamook County outside of known copei range. Very bushy gills and thickish body look like tenebrosus to me. I've never doubted tenebrosus for this specimen, but the flatish snout confuses me, and makes me wonder if that's an invalid ID characteristic. Possibly just a photo angle issue though.

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7. Washington County, outside of known copei range. Very bushy gills and thickish legs say tenebrosus to me, though the snout once again is confusing.

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8. Found in rapids in the Gorge, just an hour or so before #5 but in very different habitat. Extremely bushy gills, tapering snout, and thick legs say tenebrosus to me.

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9. Another Gorge tenebrosus, found just 10 minutes after #8 in the same stream. Once again very thick appearance with bushy gills and a rounded-ish snout.

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jonathan
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Re: The Great Northwest Herp ID Contest: Week 2

Post by jonathan »

And for extra credit fun….which one of these is not like the others?

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jonathan
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Re: The Great Northwest Herp ID Contest: Week 2

Post by jonathan »

Now, the expert level. These are my toughest Dicamptodon ID problems, often because they're older records where I was taking subpar photos.

If you think you have a strong idea of which is which, even just one, guess away at any and all:

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E.
http://www.naherp.com/photo.php?v_id=49385



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K.
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