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 Post subject: Question concerning the installation of AC
PostPosted: March 14th, 2012, 6:21 am 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:50 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
Hey all,

I work as a biologist for a consultant in environment. I have a project where I need to find either smooth green snakes or eastern milksnakes on a property. I have some AC (wood sheets and asphalt shingles) I intend to install and go flip periodically.

I am debating as to when I should go install the AC. Right now, the snow is melting quickly but the ground is very wet.

I'm hoping that may-june will produce one of the species I'm looking for.

If anyone would like to help, it would be more than welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Question concerning the installation of AC
PostPosted: March 14th, 2012, 6:49 am 
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Joined: June 8th, 2010, 12:54 pm
Posts: 259
Location: Colorado
I like how you use the term "install"... it lends a sense of professionalism to your littering. To answer your question, i'd say the sooner the better. I'll be a bit surprised and a lot envious if that AC produces for you this season. In CO the cover we lay... i mean, install, usually takes a year or two to "mature" before it produces. The vegetation underneath it needs to die and the rodents need to clear that out, it needs to settle flat and vegetation has to grow up around it for it to really attract the snakes. No clue how things work up there though. Try layering some of the wood sheets.

So can we hear more about this project? I'm curious to know why you need to find those species. If they exist there will the land not be altered or something?


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 Post subject: Re: Question concerning the installation of AC
PostPosted: March 14th, 2012, 7:45 am 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:48 am
Posts: 156
Location: NW Ohio
I installed (heh) some AC at a site in NW ohio in March a few years ago. Got lots of garters and browns within a couple months, but only on milk snake that summer. One or two the next. Several milks each year subsequent.


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 Post subject: Re: Question concerning the installation of AC
PostPosted: March 14th, 2012, 10:24 am 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:50 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
Joe Farah wrote:
I like how you use the term "install"... it lends a sense of professionalism to your littering. To answer your question, i'd say the sooner the better. I'll be a bit surprised and a lot envious if that AC produces for you this season. In CO the cover we lay... i mean, install, usually takes a year or two to "mature" before it produces. The vegetation underneath it needs to die and the rodents need to clear that out, it needs to settle flat and vegetation has to grow up around it for it to really attract the snakes. No clue how things work up there though. Try layering some of the wood sheets.


Noted... That was my understanding. I haven't used a lot of AC up here and I think I have a better chance at finding smooth greens this year than I have at finding milks... Either one will do the trick.

Joe Farah wrote:
So can we hear more about this project? I'm curious to know why you need to find those species. If they exist there will the land not be altered or something?


The habitat where I need to find the snakes is located around a big marsh. If I can find the snakes, the land will be offered for compensation for the destruction of another wetland that is being developped. Without going into to much details, the ministry often works this way... To obtain the autorisation to destroy a wetland you have to prove that the project is needed, that the ecological value of the wetland is low, that the destruction of the wetland cannot be avoided and finally if all of the above are proved, you need to provide a piece of land including a wetland of equal surface and greater ecological value. In this case, finding either species of snake will give the wetland a greater value because both species are listed under the endangered species law.


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 Post subject: Re: Question concerning the installation of AC
PostPosted: March 14th, 2012, 11:07 am 
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Joined: June 9th, 2010, 6:38 am
Posts: 196
Location: Canada
If you are looking for smooth green snakes .. I would suggest placing small pieces of flexible carpet the size of a door matt. Fold some and leave some flat. Put them in mossy areas with some rotting logs and mixed sun exposure. If they are in the area, they will use them for egg laying ;) The carpets will develop moss and the carpets will camoflauge themselves so they will not even stand out after a year or two.

I have a spot where they have nested in my carpet sheets for 3 years straight. Maybe I can find my photos tonight to show you what I mean. Here are some eggs from under or in AC in the meantime:

eggs under carpet
Image

eggs inside discarded greenhouse plastic
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Question concerning the installation of AC
PostPosted: March 14th, 2012, 11:08 am 
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Joined: June 8th, 2010, 12:54 pm
Posts: 259
Location: Colorado
Nir wrote:

The habitat where I need to find the snakes is located around a big marsh. If I can find the snakes, the land will be offered for compensation for the destruction of another wetland that is being developped. Without going into to much details, the ministry often works this way... To obtain the autorisation to destroy a wetland you have to prove that the project is needed, that the ecological value of the wetland is low, that the destruction of the wetland cannot be avoided and finally if all of the above are proved, you need to provide a piece of land including a wetland of equal surface and greater ecological value. In this case, finding either species of snake will give the wetland a greater value because both species are listed under the endangered species law.


Thanks, i figured it had something to do with something along those lines.... good luck with your search


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 Post subject: Re: Question concerning the installation of AC
PostPosted: March 14th, 2012, 1:40 pm 
Nir wrote:
The habitat where I need to find the snakes is located around a big marsh. If I can find the snakes, the land will be offered for compensation for the destruction of another wetland that is being developped. Without going into to much details, the ministry often works this way... To obtain the autorisation to destroy a wetland you have to prove that the project is needed, that the ecological value of the wetland is low, that the destruction of the wetland cannot be avoided and finally if all of the above are proved, you need to provide a piece of land including a wetland of equal surface and greater ecological value. In this case, finding either species of snake will give the wetland a greater value because both species are listed under the endangered species law.
Interesting. I'm curious, are you the only one searching? Also, how much time do you have to find these snakes?


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 Post subject: Re: Question concerning the installation of AC
PostPosted: March 15th, 2012, 8:10 am 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:50 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
Thanks for the carpet idea, I'm going to try that also

RobK wrote:
Interesting. I'm curious, are you the only one searching? Also, how much time do you have to find these snakes?


I'm in charge of this particular project, so yup... I'm alone in the search. Hopefully, I'll find some this spring/start of summer... if not, we will probably have to look into another piece of land to use as compensation.

The wetland that is to be developped is a wet field that is surrounded by busy roads and tall buildings. It does not have an interesting ecological value. However, it is home to a small group of western chorus frogs which are a protected species in Quebec. The population being very small and isolated, it has been decided that the conservation of an habitat harboring rare species would work as compensation. Ideally, it would have been to conserve western chorus frog habitat with known populations, but the good habitat left is already protected... So we turned ourselves to other designated species... in this case, smooth greens and milks...


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