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 Post subject: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 25th, 2012, 12:12 pm 
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Joined: July 21st, 2010, 11:13 am
Posts: 30
Location: Texas
I found my first Hognose, having read about these legendary snakes since I was a kid. His display was very similar to this highly entertaining YouTube I found. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nScxF8vGw0


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 25th, 2012, 4:58 pm 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:05 am
Posts: 1028
Location: Albuquerque


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 25th, 2012, 5:05 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:42 am
Posts: 1887
I had to quit watching at 45 seconds. I see no good reason to harass the animal. Disturbing. Why not appreciate the beauty of the animal without stressing it so much?


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 26th, 2012, 2:49 pm 

Joined: June 11th, 2011, 7:31 am
Posts: 129
It's not harassment considering this is natural behavior for the animal. It does this behavior for all conceived threats, whether bird or mammal, dog or cat. And yes humans included, being a natural part of this world as well.


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 26th, 2012, 6:04 pm 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:43 am
Posts: 317
Location: East of san diego
Thats great what a video making the snake crap on his self, chump!!


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 26th, 2012, 6:35 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:42 am
Posts: 1887
Quote:
It's not harassment considering this is natural behavior for the animal.


Deliberately stressing an animal in order to evoke its fear response for one's entertainment is not part of "the natural order of things." It is cruelty, and it is disgusting.

*edited for spelling error


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 26th, 2012, 8:25 pm 
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Joined: June 27th, 2010, 12:27 pm
Posts: 963
Location: Terlingua / Marfa, Texas
I didn't (& won't) watch the video, but if I read the OP correctly, this is NOT her video. She merely linked it as showing a similar response to the snake she found. Without contrary evidence, I chose to assume that she did not harass her "hognoser" into his death display. I've seen hognose snakes feign death with no more provocation than a simple touch. Dozens of "dying" hognose photos are posted here every year and I've never seen the posters accused of harassing the snake. That said, I shamefully admit that I have harassed one or two "uncooperative" hoggies into death displays. Not proud of doing so, and would not do it in the future, but I doubt seriously that the snakes suffered long term harm.

BLW, congrats on your first hognose! They are always an exciting find ... right up until the point when your fellow FHF members start bashing you.


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 26th, 2012, 11:56 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:42 am
Posts: 1887
Quote:
I didn't (& won't) watch the video, but if I read the OP correctly, this is NOT her video.


It is clear that it is not the OP's video. I understand that. My aim is not to "bash" the OP. I am criticizing the idiot who made the video. However, the OP does refer to the vid as "entertaining," so perhaps she needs to hear a different perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 27th, 2012, 12:29 am 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 538
Location: Deadhorse/California
Ya' that's BS.. To pick on a animal like that. Yes that is a natural behavior as defiance against predators.... Your not a predator are you? How would you like it if I detained you scared the $hit out of you and then placed the video on YouTube?? There was no science involved in this there was nothing valuable learned it was crude and stupid!!!


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 27th, 2012, 12:51 pm 

Joined: June 9th, 2010, 12:54 pm
Posts: 111
What if the hognose now knows that feigning death "saved" his life, so he may be more apt to do it quicker when he really gets attacked in the wild? And he'll do it before he gets eaten?


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 27th, 2012, 1:00 pm 

Joined: August 16th, 2010, 8:53 am
Posts: 96
Wouldn't handling every animal bring stress onto it then. Might as well even stop road cruising or herping, as the headlamps or your presence alone would most likely stress an animal out. I think all of these "debates" or more people wanting to argue and whine to others and be heard. It's starting to get old and kind of pathetic to watch everyone bicker over something so incredibly meaningless.


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 27th, 2012, 1:31 pm 
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Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2065
There's stress and then there's STRESS! Handling almost certainly does cause every wild animal at least some stress, but for many species/individuals it's likely such a brief and modest amount that it's not worth worrying about. (Deliberately provoking a fear response would obviously be more stressful than more gentle handling.) Thankfully, all animals (including humans) have evolved to deal with at least some stress as part of normal life; problems are most likely to result when the stress is severe and/or constant. There are more than a few scientists looking at the question of wild animal handling stress (especially in some particularly sensitive wild bird species) nowadays, though, so more information on this subject will be coming out.

Gerry


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 Post subject: herpseeker1978 that was way out of line
PostPosted: May 27th, 2012, 5:50 pm 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:43 am
Posts: 317
Location: East of san diego
someday someone in the field is gonna do that to you, that was way overboard i wish you would poke me one time it would be your last :D herpseeker1978


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 Post subject: Re: herpseeker1978 that was way out of line
PostPosted: May 27th, 2012, 6:16 pm 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:05 am
Posts: 1028
Location: Albuquerque
rosy-man wrote:
someday someone in the field is gonna do that to you, that was way overboard i wish you would poke me one time it would be your last :D herpseeker1978

I'm confused, I didn't make the video, I only embedded it because it seems to be too difficult for so many people to do.

Josh


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 29th, 2012, 4:43 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:42 am
Posts: 1887
Quote:
I'm confused, I didn't make the video, I only embedded it because it seems to be too difficult for so many people to do.



Understood, Josh. My remarks were not directed towards you.


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 29th, 2012, 5:32 am 
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Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 2293
Location: San Francisco, California
AlanER wrote:
Wouldn't handling every animal bring stress onto it then. Might as well even stop road cruising or herping, as the headlamps or your presence alone would most likely stress an animal out. I think all of these "debates" or more people wanting to argue and whine to others and be heard. It's starting to get old and kind of pathetic to watch everyone bicker over something so incredibly meaningless.


It is usually inherent in Any discipline to develop some degree of skills. If you are near wildlife or in contact with living animals this means acknowledging the fact that they ARE ALIVE and reducing our impact of the encounter. Animals dont need to have a shitty day just because we decide we like to play with them and take their picture as a hobby.

Its what seperates a serious pursuit from meaningless play , in fact.


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 29th, 2012, 11:19 pm 

Joined: June 11th, 2011, 7:31 am
Posts: 129
there was nothing valuable learned


how does one then learn how animal behavior works?

yes it is pointless to bicker over this, one person shares their opinion and another shares theirs and so on. nothing wrong with that indeed, but no need to say that one person is wrong and one is right. hognose snakes are very cool animals to find and watch their behavior and be able to do that with out physical harm. hognose are one of my favorite species because they do this behavior. congrats on the first find! should have said that earlier :beer:


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 30th, 2012, 1:55 am 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 538
Location: Deadhorse/California
There are ways to learn this behavior with out torment!! Read a book servay the animal and keep your hands off watch it for a wile, that's how people learn, but to deliberately cause that leval of stress and try and justify it is ignorant... I guess there are those of us who have a deep loving passion for the animals we encounter, and there are those of us who just hunt them for selfish fun... And I just have to live with that fact! But it does not mean I have to like it or say this moron was self educationing him self!! Give me a break he thought it was cool and like a snot nose kid burning ants with a magnifying glass he kept it up..... I'm done with idiocy...... :beer:


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 30th, 2012, 1:26 pm 

Joined: June 11th, 2011, 7:31 am
Posts: 129
M.J.FRANETOVICH wrote:
There are ways to learn this behavior with out torment!! Read a book servay the animal and keep your hands off watch it for a wile, that's how people learn, but to deliberately cause that leval of stress and try and justify it is ignorant... I guess there are those of us who have a deep loving passion for the animals we encounter, and there are those of us who just hunt them for selfish fun... And I just have to live with that fact! But it does not mean I have to like it or say this moron was self educationing him self!! Give me a break he thought it was cool and like a snot nose kid burning ants with a magnifying glass he kept it up..... I'm done with idiocy...... :beer:



There are ways to learn about this behavior with out torment? What torment. It's not physical harm and very little stress! I have more stress taking a shit everyday. Your telling me to read a book to learn the behavior??? How do you think the author of that book learned it then? Stop being hypocritical...your holding a Gila Monster (against it's will if you wanna go this route). Are you putting harm onto that animal? Are you stressing it out?


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 30th, 2012, 3:11 pm 
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Joined: June 19th, 2010, 6:42 pm
Posts: 848
Location: New Yawk
Just a philosophical question:

Would it be worth harassing one hognose, recording it, and putting it on youtube, if that video was watched by someone who would have gone out and killed a hognose under the impression that they were acting aggressively?


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 30th, 2012, 4:58 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:42 am
Posts: 1887
Quote:
I have more stress taking a shit everyday.


How inspiring to see such lofty intellect.


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 Post subject: Re: I found a Hognoser
PostPosted: May 31st, 2012, 1:20 am 
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 538
Location: Deadhorse/California
neherper wrote:
M.J.FRANETOVICH wrote:
There are ways to learn this behavior with out torment!! Read a book servay the animal and keep your hands off watch it for a wile, that's how people learn, but to deliberately cause that leval of stress and try and justify it is ignorant... I guess there are those of us who have a deep loving passion for the animals we encounter, and there are those of us who just hunt them for selfish fun... And I just have to live with that fact! But it does not mean I have to like it or say this moron was self educationing him self!! Give me a break he thought it was cool and like a snot nose kid burning ants with a magnifying glass he kept it up..... I'm done with idiocy...... :beer:



There are ways to learn about this behavior with out torment? What torment. It's not physical harm and very little stress! I have more stress taking a shit everyday. Your telling me to read a book to learn the behavior??? How do you think the author of that book learned it then? Stop being hypocritical...your holding a Gila Monster (against it's will if you wanna go this route). Are you putting harm onto that animal? Are you stressing it out?



No' Stress at all' it was as calm as a new born baby!! And I was given permission by someone with a permit' to Handel Gila's the go ahead and pick him up!!!
He/she needed to be weighed, other wise I would of never put my hands on it!!



Damn guys!!! I'm entitled to my opinion on the Hoge thing,,,, get over it!! If you want to mistreat wildlife go ahead!!! I just choose not to, a hands of approach is much more rewarding, and you learn way more about the natural history..


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