long time forum member Christopher was on there? I have been a lurker on here for a long time and this is my first post. I won't make any comments about the show, as much as I hate to, but I will say that one of the main guys on this program kept referring to a cottonmouth as a "water moccassin". Christopher is an awesome dude, bikini babes in both arms, that's all I can say.

I don't watch the show regularly (caught an episode here or there) but water mocassin is an "accepted" common name for a cottonmouth.

i would have to politely disagree that water mocassin is any kind of substitute for cottonmouth any more than "hoop snake" is an accepted alternative to a coachwhip.

I personally thought it was really cool to see Chris on TV, as I used to really enjoy his photography and posts on here, especially some of his costa rica stuff. he is extremely knowledgeable and a hell of a photographer.

I concur with Andy.

It is very cool that Christopher was on the show, the episodes I've seen, I liked, it's not like other shows where they are hurting the animals or anything.



I will accept the politeness and agree that we disagree. I've heard the names water mocassin and cottonmouth as interchangeable names for that species ever since I could remember. I've never seen a book use "Hoop Snake" as the title of a chapter or section of a book about any snake except for the chapter about Old Wive's Tales and Snake Myths, whereas I have seen many references to Agkistrodon piscivorus as Water Moccasins although I agree cottonmouth is the more commonly used common name it certainly isn't as inappropriate as hoop snake. Perhaps we can start a separate topic on those as I don't want to detract or derail your original positive message about Chris, and we can see if other members agree or disagree with either of us.

I've always used water moccasin and cottonmouth interchangeably. In fact, "moccasin" used to be a name for Agkistrodon, and my old books state that a common name for copperheads used o be "upland moccasin."

I use "cottonmouth" exclusively because it causes absolutely no confusion. Everyone knows exactly what you are talking about. In local areas where they are referred to as "conger snakes, trap jaws, stump-tails, blunt-tails, yella-tail moccasins, and water moccasins, everyone still recognises the name "cottonmouth" instantly.

In parts of northwestern Mississippi and West Tennessee, the name "water moccasin" is reserved and used exclusively of all of the harmless watersnakes. "Cottonmouth is used to name the pitviper.

Cheers,

TV

We had Christopher on the Dan Krull Show a while back, talking about a few things.....
http://www.herpnation.com/audio/the-dan ... gory=audio

Re: water mocassin....I've heard that used for as long as I can remember. Probably in rural communities, mostly.

scott

In my part of the country we have water moccasins. Also ground rattlers, grass snakes, garden snakes, chicken snakes, and spreadin' adders.

No can defend the "spraddin atter". My neighbor when I was a kid was this redneck welder guy and any dark colored snake that wasn't a rattler or a copperhead was a "spraddin atter". I had to save many a hognose and water snake from whatever blunt-nosed hoe or stick he happened to have around.

I dislike the term "water mocassin" for a couple of reasons. for one, too many people also call the relatively harmless Nerodia "mocassins", and two, the otherwise great movie "Lonesome Dove" had that ridiculous scene where the guy falls off his horse in the middle of the river into a "nest" of "mocassins" and they attack him like a pride of lions on a warthog.

I've actually met Larry McMurtry a number of times at his bookstore, and he was pretty perturbed that I mentioned that scene to him and the fallacy of it. people have been pointing it out to him ever since the movie came out.

Trust me, there is nothing inappropriate about the "hoop snake"! they will chase you down at ten times the speed of a black mamba, a friend of mine at the age of 12 had one chase him to his mini-bike in regular snake mode, but when he started it up and took off, the only way the hoop snake could get him was to bite it's own tail and roll itself into a wheel and roll after him. It was all he could do to outrun it on his RM50.

This same friend swore to me that his neighbors Mastiff was half-brahma bull and half bull dog. the neighbor told him so. and this guy made better grades than I did and got all the girls. I could write a book about all of the old wive's tales I have heard over the years.

on the subject of some of these shows, and I am NOT counting gator boys as one of them, there is a ridiculous amount of misinformation on there. all of these nature shows seem to ignore common sense and the writers of the narration seem to not know what a simple internet search is. I was watching one show where they said "the largest green anaconda was an astonishing 22 feet long". I guarantee you that a simple search of google images "giant anaconda" and you will see a couple that are close to 30 feet. in particular, there is an image of about 15 amazonian indians carrying this gigantic anaconda that had to be between 28 and 32 feet.

one of the biggest fallacies I hear on these shows is the repeated use of "poisonous" instead of "venomous", but there are so many other falsehoods and misconceptions and downright ignorance on these shows that I have quit watching them. by the way, another show that had a forum member was "monster bug wars" and it had bryan fry.

It doesn't really matter to the original post, but I think it worth mentionning that ''Water Moccasin'' is the exact translation of the common french name for the cottonmouth : ''Moccassin d'eau''

Also, Copperheads are called ''Copper head moccasin'' in french : ''Moccassin à tête cuivrée''...

Just thought I'd mention...

That scene has always bothered me, too. Otherwise, a fantastic flick.

Oh God, this again.

If poisonous is good enough for Ditmars and Kaufield, it's not something to be nitpicky about.....

I thought that Farancia were the hoop snakes...anyone read the same book(s) or is it just my memory?

Shane

Among the brainiacs I grew up with, hoop snakes were either coach whips or black racers. I don't think any of them knew the difference. A Texas Rat snake and the bullsnake were alternately chicken snakes, any green colored snake was a "grass snake", and a variety of snakes with stripes were all "garden snakes". My grandmother would kill all of them.

I've never heard of a Mud snake being called a "hoop snake" but it wouldn't surprise me. I just had my 9 year old Farancia die on me right after she laid eggs, none of them hatched, it was just too much for her. After she laid, she never ate or drank again. I think so few people actually see mud snakes that I have a hard time believing they are the root of any legends or old wives tale.

My little baby would curl up on my chest when I was asleep and I would wake up in the morning and she was still there. I could let her run loose in the house and she would even sleep with my kids. She was a member of the family. i hate to attach human attributes to animals or allude to some form of reincarnation, but this snake was a saint.

Man, those french people are something else. Are there cottonmouths and copperheads in France? or are you talking about Acadians or Cajuns? regardless, a lot of people in north Texas call the Timber Rattlesnake a "velvet tail". I don't have a problem with "common" names, but I do have a problem with the term "mocassin", it is too misleading. Eastern Cottonmouth, Western Cottonmouth. those names are specific.

it doesn't really matter in the overall scheme of things, but watersnakes are watersnakes and cottonmouths are cottonmouths.

Something else? Well, we are around 6-7 million french canadians in Québec... So no, I'm not talking about french or cajun or acadians... We don't have copperheads or cottonmouths in Québec, but we still have names for them since they in a lot of our field books for North America.

This is without a doubt the most redundant conversation I have ever seen.

People have always, and likely will always, call snakes whatever they have learned, or even just want to call them. I know several people in the hobby who call them Moccasins. I know several non-herp people calling them cottonmouths.

How did a thread about the success of another forum member turn into a debate on accepted names? Cottonmouth is no different than Water Moccasin. Neither is the published scientific name, so neither holds any certain importance.

This exchange is superfluos and redundant.

People just call stuff what they learnd. They always have and will. I've met several herpers who call them Water Moccasins. I know several non herpers who don't.

It's weird that a thread that started about a herper here getting on TV has turned into a name debate. Cottonmouth, Water Moccasin, both are common names and neither is the taxonomic name, so either one should suffice.

Man, if I had a buck for every one of those statements I've seen on the FHF over the years. "How did a thread that started out as X turn into Y?" Only on the FHF.

I saw the name of the show and started reading, quite flattered you guys remember me, and then got caught up in the redundant-ness
I still lurk on the forum quite a bit, but dont have the time I used to in order to post all my photos, its just work work work for the most part. In any case, I am thrilled to be on GatorBoys, and trust me I run into all the stupid issues you guys mention from the other shows; misinformation, arguments among the cast about who is right about some obscure animal fact(really annoying when everyone on set is on tv as an "expert", arguments go longer than they do on here!) And even when we say things exactly correct and factually, editors can still innocently cut out some parts of what we say as they deemed it unimportant, even though it has great scientific importance for the species biology and identification. A great example is on a recent episode one of our guys found a Macrochelys temminckii here in Ft Lauderdale, it must have been an escaped/released animal, and I know he mentioned that and how they are not found this far south, but that info was left on the cutting room floor, so now kids in Ft Laude will be going out looking for gator snappers! ....I could seriously write a book on the behind the scenes happenings

Anyways, flattered again that you guys remember my posts, and I'd love to post again if I even find the time. If you want to see what I have been upto herping-wise though, I still keep up my photography website, http://www.ChrisGillette.com

I don't remember you...'wanna fish tonight? (Prob be a python involved afterward.)

Tim

I'm down, I'll shoot ya a text.

Does it really matter what common name he used?