Herping laws in TX

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Shane
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Herping laws in TX

Post by Shane »

I'm going to be in Texas later this month and will try to go herping when i get some time. Do I need an out of state hunting or fishing license? I could only find info relating to turtles and frogs, and something about private land, commercial purposes, etc.

What are the laws on hunting for lizards, snakes, methods (tools, night driving, etc.), public/private land...???

Thanks,
Shane
Mr. Slithers
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Mr. Slithers »

I've been pulled over by the game warden and ticketed. What he told me was that a hunting license is needed to look for snakes and that it is illegal to do so from a roadway or any public land. The game warden told me that the definition of hunting is looking for an animal even if you're only taking photographs and not actually catching anything. He said he could have charged me with hunting from a roadway but instead gave me a ticket for hunting without a license, which I took to court and got dismissed. On the other hand, a game warden saw me looking for rattlers in a state park, where hunting is prohibited, and only told me to be careful. I've been stopped by police and sheriff's deputies while snake hunting and have never had any problems with them.
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CrashX2
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by CrashX2 »

Mr. Slithers wrote:I've been pulled over by the game warden and ticketed. What he told me was that a hunting license is needed to look for snakes and that it is illegal to do so from a roadway or any public land. The game warden told me that the definition of hunting is looking for an animal even if you're only taking photographs and not actually catching anything. He said he could have charged me with hunting from a roadway but instead gave me a ticket for hunting without a license, which I took to court and got dismissed. On the other hand, a game warden saw me looking for rattlers in a state park, where hunting is prohibited, and only told me to be careful. I've been stopped by police and sheriff's deputies while snake hunting and have never had any problems with them.
This is a big problem here you just never know what to do. It will all depend on the officer you run into and his/her "take" on the written laws. Hopefully this will soon be changing!
A hunting license is a given, as it might save you allot of grief/expense on down the road.
Best way to be safe:
Get a licenses
try to stay on private property if you have access to it
IF you go on state land (road, parks, etc...)
be discrete and don't go around with hook or tongs (hiking in a park taking pics isn't against the law!)
John Williams
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by John Williams »

I completely disagree with the above post. Definitely don't waste your money on a license. The Texas laws are extremely overblown and the reality is you won't have any issues if you obey normal traffic and state laws. The most avid herpers I know (including myself) have never been ticketed or really even hassled by any law enforcement. Herp how you want, where you want, just don't trespass and don't take collecting equipment into refuges.
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CrashX2
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by CrashX2 »

John Williams wrote:I completely disagree with the above post. Definitely don't waste your money on a license. The Texas laws are extremely overblown and the reality is you won't have any issues if you obey normal traffic and state laws. The most avid herpers I know (including myself) have never been ticketed or really even hassled by any law enforcement. Herp how you want, where you want, just don't trespass and don't take collecting equipment into refuges.
Yes the laws are overblown and very vague in some respects. I view a license as cheap insurance, not sure how cheap it will be for out of state though. I would disagree with " Herp how you want, where you want" part but "just don't trespass and don't take collecting equipment into refuges" is very correct. Other than that just use common sense.
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MHollanders
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by MHollanders »

John Williams wrote:I completely disagree with the above post. Definitely don't waste your money on a license. The Texas laws are extremely overblown and the reality is you won't have any issues if you obey normal traffic and state laws. The most avid herpers I know (including myself) have never been ticketed or really even hassled by any law enforcement. Herp how you want, where you want, just don't trespass and don't take collecting equipment into refuges.
I second what Johnny says here. From what I hear, they're only anal in WTX. Also, unless you're caught in the middle of the road with a flashlight, there's nothing illegal about driving down a road looking for snakes...

Later, Matt
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chrish
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chrish »

I disagree with John somewhat.

I say buy a hunting license as a demonstration that you are trying to be within the law. I think it is important that we as herpers demonstrate a willingness to comply with reasonable laws so that we have credibility when we oppose ridiculous ones.

Although a few places in West Texas are the primary regions you will be asked for a license, I have been asked in southern Texas on several occasions, east TX once, and far west Texas (outside of the normal herper hotspots where I was probably the ONLY herper stopped by that game warden all year). I was never hassled, just asked for my hunting license.
John Williams
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by John Williams »

I just don't get the point of getting a license if you are not collecting anything. Do I need a hunting license to hike somewhere to take a picture of a dove or a deer? Why would it be any different for a snake?

John
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MHollanders
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by MHollanders »

I've wondered about this too. Under this reasoning, you should have a hunting license in order to slap mosquitoes, unless there are different rules for that.
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CrashX2
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by CrashX2 »

MHollanders wrote:I've wondered about this too. Under this reasoning, you should have a hunting license in order to slap mosquitoes, unless there are different rules for that.
Different rules for mosquitoes....unless you use a shotgun!! :mrgreen:
What I posted about the licenses was general, and the original poster didn't define hunting as he was using it in the quoted sentence below. :thumb:
"What are the laws on hunting for lizards, snakes, methods (tools, night driving, etc.), public/private land...???"
bobassetto
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by bobassetto »

being out of state.....guys like me are often selected by tpw for a stop.......it is illegal to "hunt" for vertebrates on the ROW(right of way) ......the roadway itself ...up tp the private property line......hunt could be defined as "looking for"......so i use the phrase "looking for photographic opportunities"......if you are on the ROW and have vertebrates in your vehicle and consent to a search the LEO can confiscate them under suspected illegal collection along with a citation......yes, the illegal collection has to witnessed by the LEO.....go to court and the charges will probably be dismissed.....but if you live 2000 miles away....would you return for court.....LE knows this and realizes that this results in a "win-win" situation .......and the law seemed to enforced mostly in west texas......and seems to be ill-enforced in other texas areas......i do believe this regulation is up for modification.......it was passed as a rider on some other bill.....other comments????
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chrish
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chrish »

I think the idea of "hunting" without any intention of collecting is problematic. I pick up roadkills every now and then so I have a hunting license to cover that, even though it really doesn't.

If you never intend to handle the animal and only shoot in situ, you probably can get by without a license. If you intend to pick up animals and pose them, you probably should have one even if you intend to immediately release them.

It's a crock, but I just think we as herpers need to try and follow the law as best we can so when they pull this cr@p in the future, we can demonstrate we aren't a bunch of criminals and scofflaws.
bobassetto
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by bobassetto »

correct.....even you release the animal immediately......you still caught it......so, you need that paper.......also it can't be on the ROW.......even for positioning for a photo......ain't allowed....by interpetation of your locale LEO.......some are more realistic and understanding, but others as we know , are too quick with that pencil.......specifically with outta staters.....
Shane
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Shane »

Thanks for the info. I'm going to play it safe as I wouldn't be able to make the trek back to TX from CA if ticketed. Usually CA is the overregulated state. I thought that TX would be open to just about any form of "varmint" hunting, but I guess it's backwards with herping. In CA, all you need is a fishing license (and follow the basic regs) and you're good. That's a bummer that you can't herp legally on any public property in TX.
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muskiemagnet
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by muskiemagnet »

i've never read the laws, mostly because i am nowhere near texas, but reading the posts helps me understand that it seems like a pretty crappy situation all around. good luck with changing the laws. don't give up.

don't mess with texas i guess.

sounds retarded that citizens can't enjoy herps on public lands. they are paying for the management of them.

gotta love politics. focusing on what shouldn't matter, and ignoring what should.

-ben
katysnakes
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by katysnakes »

the laws down here applying to herping are rediculous. my research has been mostly aimed at the removal of problem snakes, but has gotten branched into some pointless areas. i still have not been able to figure them out completely, but am getting a better understanding. you DO need a hunting license to collect snakes, by what the state says in it's manuel. to be legal on the hunting license though, you have to attend hunters education first. you can get a 1-time waiver for a year, but you have to be with a licensed hunter to be hunting. then the private property and lists come into play. some snakes, depending on where they are located and species, it seems you can do anything with. also, depending on quantity and species, there are bag limits to how many you can be in possesion of with out collectors, breeders or business permit. and know that you may not be legal to be in possesion of a venomous snake in certain townships. they really have to simplify things. my best suggestions, get a liscense, they are pretty cheap, cover the bases you can, and pay attention to where you are and what you have.
MAbernathy
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by MAbernathy »

Here is my thoughts on the herping laws.

If you know where you are going, look on the TPWD website under game warden, and contact one of the local wardens in the area you are heading. Be straight up with him/her. Tell them you are coming to Texas to look for and photograph reptiles and amphibians and that you want to make sure you do it legally. As them if you need a license and to help with the clarification of the laws.

In my opinion, if you make the effort to do the right thing, they will probably be all for helping you to understand the laws.

Contact me if you want more info on how to find your local game warden.

Cheers
Matt
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Gluesenkamp
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Gluesenkamp »

Re. katysnake's comments: I checked with our LE about the hunter's education provision and they said that is not necessary to take the course just to collect snakes. The hunter's ed. is necessary only if you are going to use a firearm to collect them (please don't).

Re. Matt's suggestion: That sounds like a good idea. Contacting the local game warden is required of scientific permit holders and it just makes sense that you'd want to minimize the likelihood of "unpleasant" surprises for yourself and for LE. That seems to be much of what is behind the issue of road cruising in the first place.
Herp on!
Andy
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ShangXiang
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by ShangXiang »

This might be a stupid question, but curiosity has the better of me. Say i'm driving done a road (public land) and I see a snake or something just chillin there, am I not even allowed to remove it from the road for the safety of the reptile?
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Soopaman
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Soopaman »

ShangXiang wrote:This might be a stupid question, but curiosity has the better of me. Say i'm driving done a road (public land) and I see a snake or something just chillin there, am I not even allowed to remove it from the road for the safety of the reptile?
Not without a Texas hunting license with a herp stamp.
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Gluesenkamp
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Gluesenkamp »

Here's a brief rundown of the regs for herping in TX. [edited for tone]

Here ya go:

-In-State or Out-of-state hunting license required to collect or handle herps (or pose them for photos, etc). Think of it like catch-and-release when you are fly fishing for trout. Even though you are not keeping them, you still need a lic. to handle them.

-If you plan to search/collect on public ROWs, you'll need a reptile and amphibian stamp ($10) and a reflective vest. No commercial collection on ROWs.

-Pay attention to bag limits (25 for white list, 6 for black list species, T&E species are off-limits).

-Commercial collection requires a NG Collector's permit ($30) or NG dealer's permit ($60 +application). There is no commercial bag limit on white list species but no commercial collection of black list species allowed.

-Last I heard, these regs apply statewide. Our LE move around from year to year so I would definitely follow the regs, regardless of where in the state I plan to herp. Some folks have been giving out very bad advice on this point. Advice that could get folks in trouble. It is as if they WANT folks to get cited. I honestly can't see any advantage in that.

When in doubt, check the regs online!

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/faq/huntwil ... tamp.phtml
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/faq/huntwil ... mits.phtml
gretzkyrh4
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by gretzkyrh4 »

Thanks for providing the breakdown Andy. I had thought that the herp stamp was required for any herping activity and that the reflective vest was the only thing specific to herping the ROW, so I appreciate the clarification.

Chris
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Gluesenkamp
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Gluesenkamp »

Yeah, Chris.
The herp stamp language is pretty vague so it is well worth your time to make sure you know what is allowed/required and what isn't.

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any Qs.

Andy
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Soopaman
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Soopaman »

Gluesenkamp wrote:Yeah, Chris.
The herp stamp language is pretty vague so it is well worth your time to make sure you know what is allowed/required and what isn't.

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any Qs.

Andy
Andy,
Is the hunting license anything special or just the general (101) Resident Hunting License? I see you linked to a 548 license and now I'm wondering if I got the wrong thing.

I picked up a Resident Hunting License and a Herp stamp within this past week, but I want to make sure I'm okay and don't need a different type of hunting license.

Kyle
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DracoRJC
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by DracoRJC »

What if I am from out of state and don't want to pay the huge fee for a non-resident license and I accompany someone who already has one?
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Gluesenkamp
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Gluesenkamp »

Here's a link to all TPWD hunting and fishing licenses and associated fees:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/li ... reational/

For the out-of-state herper, I recommend either a Type 107 (good for nongame and birds, $132) or a Type 159 (non-resident 5-day, $48). Option #1 would be good all year, Option #2 would be good for a visit and would only set you back $58 for five days of road cruising. Of course, the stamp is good for a year if you decide to purchase another 159 or a 107 later on.

Non-resident Special Hunting (Type 107): $132
Valid to hunt: Exotic animals, all legal game birds (NOT VALID FOR TURKEY), all nongame animals, squirrel, javelina and alligator (not valid for other game animals, NOT VALID FOR DEER). Stamp endorsement requirements apply.

Non-resident 5-Day Special Hunting (Type 157): $48
Legal for any period of 5 consecutive days (valid hunting dates will be printed on the license when issued). Valid to hunt: exotic animals, all legal game birds (except turkeys), all nongame animals, squirrel, javelina and alligator (not valid for other game animals, NOT VALID FOR DEER). Stamp endorsement requirements apply.

I strongly recommend that you ignore anyone saying that "XX" is not enforced in "YY" County (especially after only a year of snake hunting!). The laws apply statewide. I'd hate to see someone get popped over a $10 stamp. That would look bad for all of us.

On another note, we have sold 463 Reptile and Amphibian Stamps so far. That is a revenue of $4475 so don't think I'm pushing herp stamps as a money-making racket for the agency. It's definitely not.

In any case, thanks to all of you who purchased a stamp!
Andy
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gbin
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by gbin »

I just wanted to follow Andy's post up with this excerpt from TPWD's website:
Did you know that 100% of your hunting and fishing license fees go to conservation?

It's true,100% of your hunting and fishing license fees go to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department for on-the-ground conservation efforts that help make Texas one of the best places in the country to hunt and fish. Fish stocking, wildlife management, habitat restoration, land conservation, and Texas Game Wardens are just some of the initiatives funded in part by your license fees. Thank you for your investment in Texas' natural resources. For more information on the types of licenses available, where you can purchase a license, hunting and fishing rules and regulations, and much more, explore the links on the left.
:thumb:

Gerry
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ebit123
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by ebit123 »

Hi, can someone please explain what a public
right of way in TX is exactly? From what I gather, it is land between a public road and private property? If so, how do you know where the private property starts, and is it common in rural areas in TX to not go right up to the road? Also, can the license /permit allow you to herp around a rest stop? Finally if we are just 1 adult and 1 child, does the child need a license?
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chris_mcmartin »

ebit123 wrote:Hi, can someone please explain what a public
right of way in TX is exactly? From what I gather, it is land between a public road and private property?
Yes.

If so, how do you know where the private property starts,
99% of the time, there will be a fence!
and is it common in rural areas in TX to not go right up to the road?
Yes. There is usually a strip of land of varying width along the road. There are probably Dept of Transportation (or other) regulations saying it has to be at least X feet (I think my property ended 18 feet from the road when I owned it). Typically you're looking at at least 20 feet (usually more). It's often around 40-50 feet wide in some areas. This may not sound like much, but when you take into account features like road cuts it provides quite a bit of herping opportunity.
Also, can the license /permit allow you to herp around a rest stop?
It should...it's not the roadway, and it's not private land or a state/national park...
Finally if we are just 1 adult and 1 child, does the child need a license?
If the child is under 16, you don't need any license for him, but he will need the Reptile and Amphibian Stamp ($10). Given the length of your trip, you're going to want the annual nonresident license for yourself (as well as the Reptile and Amphibian Stamp).
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ebit123
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by ebit123 »

Thanks for your reply - you have actually helped so much with my other post too.

Can I just ask you something...something I've been wondering about - it's such a common childhood experience for kids to go down to a pond or town park/field and grab frogs, turtles or garter snakes...are kids in Texas penalized when they do that? I'm thinking kids in the suburbs who might not have a lot of property around their home to herp, but notice (harmless) animals on the roadside or in a field and want to grab them. Just curious.
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chris_mcmartin »

ebit123 wrote:Thanks for your reply - you have actually helped so much with my other post too.

Can I just ask you something...something I've been wondering about - it's such a common childhood experience for kids to go down to a pond or town park/field and grab frogs, turtles or garter snakes...are kids in Texas penalized when they do that? I'm thinking kids in the suburbs who might not have a lot of property around their home to herp, but notice (harmless) animals on the roadside or in a field and want to grab them. Just curious.
Technically, they could be, if they moved a turtle off a road. In practice, the Legislature has assured us that of course they wouldn't do that, but by the letter of the law it is forbidden. I have heard of no citations for a child doing this. I have heard of tickets for adults touching animals on the road, though.

You don't need a license (if you're under 16 to herp)...unless you're doing it on the right-of-way. In that case, you need the stamp. Private property (with landowner permission) is OK. Adults need a license on private property (and landowner permission), and a stamp if hunting the rights-of-way.
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chrish
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chrish »

DracoRJC wrote:What if I am from out of state and don't want to pay the huge fee for a non-resident license and I accompany someone who already has one?
Yeah, Texas really has high out of state fees, but so do most states.

Texas Non-Resident Special Hunting (107) = $135
Virginia Non-Resident Hunting = $111

My honest feeling is that if you don't want to herp within the law, don't herp.
You can observe herps without a license, but if you are doing the things that most herpers like to do, you need a license.

It is disrespect for the law that gives herpers a bad name. (Not picking on you Draco, just making a point).
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ebit123
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by ebit123 »

Will the special hunting license with reptile stamp only allow herping on roadside, right of way and private land (with permission)? Will it allow herping in WMAs, national forests, or other public lands that are away from the road? Also, if anyone knows of people who own lodges /campgrounds /ranches that allow herping , please PM .
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Trey
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Trey »

Gluesenkamp wrote:Here's a link to all TPWD hunting and fishing licenses and associated fees:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/li ... reational/
Option #1 would be good all year, Option #2 would be good for a visit and would only set you back $58 for five days of road cruising.
Andy

I am confused, In the link you posted earlier in this thread it says this.. "Q6: Can I cruise the road in a vehicle at night and look for reptiles and amphibians on the shoulder of the road or on the unpaved area of the public right-of-way?
A6: No. It is a violation to use an artificial light from a motor vehicle in locating, capturing or attempting to capture reptiles and amphibians on the shoulder of a road or on the unpaved area of a public right-of-way. The vehicle's headlights are considered artificial lights."

But you say it's ok to roadcruise. Whats the deal here?
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chris_mcmartin »

Trey wrote:I am confused, In the link you posted earlier in this thread it says this.. "Q6: Can I cruise the road in a vehicle at night and look for reptiles and amphibians on the shoulder of the road or on the unpaved area of the public right-of-way?
A6: No. It is a violation to use an artificial light from a motor vehicle in locating, capturing or attempting to capture reptiles and amphibians on the shoulder of a road or on the unpaved area of a public right-of-way. The vehicle's headlights are considered artificial lights."

But you say it's ok to roadcruise. Whats the deal here?

The deal is that the FAQ on their web site was written by an individual, with his very individualized interpretation of the law.

The best bet is to talk to the actual Game Warden(s) in the area you plan on herping, and let them know your intentions. Transparency and honesty work to your benefit; the worst that can happen is they say, "Sorry, you can't do that." Road cruising for photography (i.e. not touching a herp on the road) is generally fine. Some wardens will even say you can collect an animal that was initially on the road, if it moves off the road of its own accord (i.e. not coaxed/shooed off by the herper).
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Gluesenkamp
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Gluesenkamp »

Old habits die hard. I still call it road cruising, even when I'm walking. What I meant to say was "five days of carefully searching ROWs with approved reflective vest."
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chris_mcmartin »

I heard second-hand that salvaging DOR game animals (but not herps) is now legal in TX...does anyone have a link to that?
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.

Post by craigb »

.
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chris_mcmartin »

craigb wrote:Okay, just relatively on track inquiry: Night driving in Big Bend N.P. with camera on front seat and head lamp, absolutely no hunting equipment. Can I stop on the shoulder, get out and walk within 6 feet of a snake, shoot a pic using camera and headlamp? Does it matter if the snake/reptile is on the road or on the shoulder?
Nope! :( Each National Park's superintendent can apparently come up with their own special regulations unique to their park; it's called a "Superintendent's Compendium."

From Big Bend's Superintendent's Compendium (revised 06 November 2014), Section 2.2 (e):
All areas of the park are closed to the viewing of wildlife with artificial light.

Artificial light is defined as a flashlight, hand-held spotlight, headlights, exterior vehicle lights or other light, which is emitted from a non-natural source. This also includes any infrared or similar light used in connection with a scope or electronic viewing device.
So if you're driving down the road, run over all the snakes, because you aren't allowed to see them. :?

In direct contradiction to this Special Regulation, the park's web site advises:
To avoid being bitten by a snake, watch where you put your hands and feet, always carry a flashlight at night,

"...but, Your Honor, I got bitten because I heard a rattle but turned my flashlight away from the sound because I didn't want to violate the Superintendent's Special Regulation!" :twisted:
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Post by craigb »

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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chris_mcmartin »

craigb wrote:My condolences to the citizens living in the great state of Texas.
I assumed the political ignorance at that level was endemic to California.
Well, Big Bend is Federal, not State, so the mindset you experienced at Joshua Tree likely permeates the whole NPS organization.

TPWD ain't too bad (hello, Andy and Game Wardens). :lol:

The Legislature is who we have to work with to get the Texas Parks and Wildlife Code changed (e.g. lift the road-cruising ban). However, the Legislature is also who just passed a resolution praising the Sweetwater Rattlesnake Roundup...

:?
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chrish
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Re: Herping laws in TX

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Some of this may be reiteration, but....

In defense of the great state of Texas, our laws are not any stranger or stricter than mnay states in the US. There are plenty of states whose laws are much more strict.

The problems we have in Texas are twofold:

1. There is very little public land. There are few areas in the eastern part of the state that are accessible and allow herping, but most of the state does not. So in most of the state, where can herpers herp? On the roads or the shoulders. By comparison, if you live in CA or AZ there are vast tracks of accessible herping land.

2. "Hunting" from roads or with artificial lights is prohibited. This is true in most states. What differs from state to state is the interpretation of this law in its application to road cruising. The problem is that Texas has varied over time in its interpretation of whether road cruising for herps is "hunting" and whether your car headlights count as artificial lights. They certainly do if it is a deer you are trying to shoot. Currently, herping on the road is considered hunting and prohibited. Many of us have been watching this go back and forth over the last 30+ years and frankly, it is getting better. At least we are having substantive conversations about it with the powers that be.

We also have more historical baggage when it comes to road cruising than many other states. A lot of states have rules that prohibit hunting from roads, but don't enforce them for road cruising because they don't perceive road cruising as a significant issue. In TX, it is.

Think of herping like fishing. You need license to go out and try to fish, even if you fail to catch anything. You need a license to try and catch fish. Herping should be seen in the same light. We are no different than catch and release fishermen (except we aren't lazy SOB's who cut a line because we are too frickin' lazy to make the effort to get the hook out!!!.....but I digress :roll: ).

Things will improve as long as herpers are willing to follow the laws that exist and support the system trying to improve them (buying licenses and R&A stamps).

And I might point out that the statement earlier that you can move an animal off the road with a hunting license/R&A stamp is incorrect. You cannot move an animal off the road, even if it is in danger of being killed. Not even for a photo, not even to save its life. It is a stupid law, but it is there because "hunting from the road" is illegal.

And one last important point, your hunting licenses/R&A stamp does not give you the right to hunt on any roadside/ROW in Texas. There are many ROWs that are part of protected lands. You can't hunt ROWs in state parks, for example. Nor can you hunt ROWs in federal lands where hunting is prohibited. I was once ticketed for looking at frogs at night in a roadside ditch next to a public road because that public road was on an easement through a NWR which it bordered. Even though one side of the road was private land, the whole road and its right of ways were "in the refuge".

Chris
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chrish »

But could you be cited if you had a camera and were photographing fish??
If your fish photos were like this, then no...

Image

because you aren't disrupting, touching or impeding the movement of the fish. But if you caught the fish for your photo using a line, trap, seine, net or your bare hands for your photos, then yes, you need a license.

And if you herp without impeding the animals progess, touching, posing them, etc., then you don't need a license. But if you capture them to get your photos, you do. This isn't complicated.
I think that will be my story when I am out and about...... snakes? what snakes? I am photographing owls and insects !
I will even snap a few shots of birds while there, so I can show them. I like birds....
You mean go out and pretend you aren't herping so you don't have to buy a license?

The state of Texas (like most other states) has required that you need a license to look for herps, even if you don't find them. You need a hunting license to go deer hunting, even if you don't find a deer.
It isn't really any more complicated than that. If you are looking for herps. you are herping. Pretending you aren't to avoid buying a license is a personal choice, but it is dishonest.

The whole nature of this discussion seems to be based around the concept of "What do I have to do to avoid buying a license?". The answer is simple. Don't herp, or do herp and cheat.

But then when those responsible for writing and/or enforcing the rules put in more restrictive rules because of these violations, we have no room to complain.

I understand that out of state licenses are expensive (I buy them when I travel), but so is gasoline for road cruising, so are hotels, so is food, so are flights, etc., all of which we readily spend money on to herp. It can expensive to herp in some areas. Licenses are just one of the many expenses.
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chrish »

craigb wrote:Nice big (snake of your choice) sitting in the middle of the road. I pull over on to the shoulder and wait for it to crawl off the road. Because I want a picture or two ONLY. And guess what I may want to use a flash attachment. No bags, no tongs, no hooks or collection gear at all anywhere in the car. But Mr. or Ms. Law Enforcement roll up while it is yet to get to the shoulder. I am in violation and can be cited ... Yes ? That is the way I read it, even with a valid license. I don't have the vest, the snake is on the road, and I am using artificial light (my flash or even a headlamp).
If you don't touch or impede the snake in the process of taking the photo, you can't be charged with "hunting" that snake. Therefore the artificial light is irrelevant. You can legally photograph a snake on the road as long as you are legally stopped, etc., and not impeding traffic of doing something else dangerous/illegal.

I photograph a lot of animals on the road in TX each year. And sometimes I wait for them to move off the road. Sometimes my attempts at photography encourage them to leave the road a bit as well (i.e. walking towards them with a flashlight). Once they are off the road, I can manipulate because I have a licence and R&A stamp.

I'm not saying the rule makes sense, just that it exists.

And am I going to let an animal get run over to stay within bounds of this legal loophole? No. I have and will continue to chose to protect animals by moving them off the road even if the law won't protect them. But I understand and accept the consequences of violating the law like this.....and I am otherwise completely legal (licenses, etc.).
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Re: Herping laws in TX

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Is a golf club considered the same as a hook or tongs?
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chrish
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Re: Herping laws in TX

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Biker Dave wrote:Is a golf club considered the same as a hook or tongs?
If you are carrying a golf club in place of your snake hook as a way to get around the laws pertaining to snake hooks, then it is a snake hook. If you are out playing golf, then you aren't.

I think if you start with the premise of a question that is "how can I circumvent the rules so I don't have to pay for a license or can herp where or how it normally is prohibited", then your intention must be to violate the law.

The laws in TX (and other states) are not that complicated. We all know what herping is. If you are herping, you have to follow the laws that govern herping.

I don't love all the herping laws in my home state and other states either, but I understand and respect the need for them. Do I violate them on occasion (i.e. roadhunt in Texas, stop to photograph an animal in a state where I don't have the requisite permits, etc)? Yes. Do I accept the consequences of my violation if the laws are enforced? Yes.
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by Biker Dave »

Just so I have it straight.
I buy the license and herp stamp online.
When roadcruising... Pull all the way off the road. Wear the vest. Do not remove animals from any portion of the pavement.
In the field.... No hooks or tongs in state parks.

Am I missing anything?

I actually do want to stay legal.

Dave
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Re: Herping laws in TX

Post by chris_mcmartin »

Biker Dave wrote:Just so I have it straight.
I buy the license and herp stamp online.
When roadcruising... Pull all the way off the road. Wear the vest. Do not remove animals from any portion of the pavement.
In the field.... No hooks or tongs in state parks.

Am I missing anything?

I actually do want to stay legal.

Dave
I think you've covered the main points. I'd add, "don't touch, corral, block, or 'shoo' any animals on any portion of the pavement" as well.
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