Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

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Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Porter » March 31st, 2016, 6:57 pm

I have very litt How much bleach should you use?le time right now, but this was something that came about as an important thing to discuss and spread info about. I'm hoping people can just run with it, because I won't have time to respond to comments.

Many of us do yearly trips to different habitats in search of lifers and our favorite creatures. Some out of county, out of state, and even out of country. What kind of preparation is required in safe footwear? If you're not buying new shoes for the trip... what should you do!? :o

I'd like to get professional people working in the field (biologist, herpetologists, fish n game, ect...) and/or average field herpers to discuss the importance of bleaching your boots before herping new habitats. Here's some starter questions to get things rolling...

Is soap good enough or should I use bleach?

How much bleach is sufficient?

How do I wash it out?

Will bleach hurt the herps? ...How?

What about chytrid? ...how does it relate to this issue?

What chytrid like problems should I be aware of in different states/counties/countries

What about parasites?

How long can fungals and parasites live in my footwear?

Is the problem limited to water or dry habitat as well? ...what about those white nosed bats??

If I think a pond is infected, how can I report it?

What about my dipping net mesh?

What about my wet pant legs that have dried?

Shoelaces too!!??

Sole of my shoes sinking in mud near a pond?

Vernal pools... dry and wet?

Ocean to ponds? ...ponds to rivers? ...rivers to ponds? ...ocean to rivers?

How about those cow patties?

And where are the links to extensive information to keep my favorite and not so favorite herps safe? (I don't care what happens to those stupid frogs, i just like snakes....but I forgot that the snakes eat the frogs and garters can get fungal disease too :o :( ...and removing one piece of a balanced ecosystem can bring the down fall of it. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW :oops: :cry: )

OK, that should be enough to get a serious discussion going. PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUS and lets get some solid thorough guidelines to follow :thumb:

Also, if there has been a post about this subject before please include a link to it in the comment box below! Thank you :beer:

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 1st, 2016, 12:35 am

The disinfectant action of bleach is made unstable and even disabled by debris and many organic materials. A boot sole drench in bleach can almost be seen as a gesture precaution because of this. There is a Disinfectant Use Table posted here on the forum that describes the action of commonly used disinfectants and their efficacy to various pathogens. Just use Search feature

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 1st, 2016, 12:48 am

Table of Disinfectants Use and Characteristics

MCHerper
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by MCHerper » April 1st, 2016, 5:20 am

Well, I'm an above average field herper but I'll try. I'm definitely an advocate of this practice. I have found that swallowing a 1% bleach solution that has been aged for at least a year in a whiskey cask (oak only) and then flushing with some warm salty water or magnesium citrate can work wonders. Not sure if it helps keep the herps safe but the mail moves right along.

When swimming in vernals you can spray the bleach solution in your hair to keep the spore count down (as long as it doesn't come in contact with the water). Soak your shoes in a 10 percent bleach solution and then put them in the dryer for at least a day. Ignore the monotonous thumping.

I don't use shoelaces, I just hold the mouth of my boots together while walking. My herping buddies call me Nosferatu, not sure why.

Fungal spores can live in your spaghetti, so refrain from eating that before a field outing.
White nosed bats don't eat fungals or parasites from what I know, except mosquitoes, which don't carry chytrid.

Keep your contaminated self the hell away from the oceans, once this stuff gets to the ocean then it's all over and we'll have to carry binoculars.

I don't have any favorite herps, I find them all boring since I've seen every one of them at least twice. I'm currently moving into amphibianology, it's pretty cool. I haven't seen a cow patty since I stopped taking jiujitsu, so I have nothing for you there.

I don't use any scientific literature, there's a guy down the street who tells me everything and he's pretty believable, so I don't have any links. Maybe I'll try to get him on here if he's not napping. Wait here, I'll go check.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by MCHerper » April 1st, 2016, 8:41 am

I just checked, the dude’s not there. The cops took him away or something. He tried to genetically clone his sister and now she sweats Chanel number 5 and her eyes are all red. She’s a lot meaner now too, if that’s possible. I told you the dude was smart. Just be careful with the bleach man, I guess.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by ChadHarrison » April 1st, 2016, 8:56 am

I was taught to go with a 10% bleach solution. It's easy to come by, easy to make, and extremely effective against threats like Chytrid and the Ophidiomyces complex. Spray bottles are cheap at walmart. Mix up a 10% solution, fill your spray bottle, and just keep that thing in your trunk. This is a great topic to bring up, as this is SO important and I don't think it is talked about enough. I don't know that many herpers who regularly disinfect.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by MCHerper » April 1st, 2016, 9:24 am

Alright when I read about the cow patties I assumed that this would turn out to be a tongue-in-cheek April Fool's thread, but I do echo what Chad said about this being important. Immensely important, actually. I feel that we have a responsibility to do what we can to protect these animals while we are observing them (whether for data collection or personal pleasure).

This was my original post, before I mixed it up for some forum fun:

I'm definitely an advocate of this practice. I use a fresh 10% bleach solution, less than 24 hours old, on all boots, equipment, etc, then rinse with water to remove any residual. I do try not to visit multiple vernals in one night if possible, and have only done so one time and did wash and rinse shoes with 1 hour between visits. Bleach will definitely harm amphibians if bleach directly contacts their skin, but if rinsed well and given at least a few minutes, there should not be enough residual to harm them. With the recent concern about Bd, Bsal, and Snake Fungal Disease (Ophidiomyces), I spray my shoes between any field outings (not just vernals and other amphibian observations). I try not to walk in vernals, only around the edges, and will clean any material that comes in contact with the substrate. I don't know how long fungal spores can live on your clothing, nets, materials, etc., but I know that spores are pretty hearty and I imagine that they persist for quite some time. It's definitely important.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 1st, 2016, 10:04 am

Its more important to clean / rinse before you apply bleach than after, to "remove residuals"

There are no significant residuals to worry about.

Sodium hypochlorite and its use and mechanics are thoroughly researched. Knowing about what you are using and how it works is preferable to hearsay or custom.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Porter » April 1st, 2016, 10:35 am


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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by klawnskale » April 1st, 2016, 11:49 am

Carrying the pathogens from one body of water to another is what you should be most aware of. I do not encourage the handling of anurans unless it is necessary for data acquisition and tissue samples. if you do handle frogs or salamanders do so with disposable gloves. Use a fresh pair for each different habitat. Place the used gloves in a sealed plastic bag for disposal later. Not only should you include boots and hands, but any instruments used for morphometric data measuring (like scales and rulers) or handling tools. You should make an isolated bleach solution in a sealed plastic container just specifically for disinfecting. This includes buckets and dip nets or anything else that maybe immersed in the pond. Best to just limit amphibian exploration to one isolated body of water per day. Then you can go home and properly disinfect everything and run your clothes through the washer. This will help to inhibit transmission from one separate location to another. But the best thing you can do is DON'T handle the herps and refrain from wading into the water.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by MCHerper » April 1st, 2016, 12:24 pm

klawnskale wrote:Carrying the pathogens from one body of water to another is what you should be most aware of. I do not encourage the handling of anurans unless it is necessary for data acquisition and tissue samples. if you do handle frogs or salamanders do so with disposable gloves. Use a fresh pair for each different habitat. Place the used gloves in a sealed plastic bag for disposal later. Not only should you include boots and hands, but any instruments used for morphometric data measuring (like scales and rulers) or handling tools. You should make an isolated bleach solution in a sealed plastic container just specifically for disinfecting. This includes buckets and dip nets or anything else that maybe immersed in the pond. Best to just limit amphibian exploration to one isolated body of water per day. Then you can go home and properly disinfect everything and run your clothes through the washer. This will help to inhibit transmission from one separate location to another. But the best thing you can do is DON'T handle the herps and refrain from wading into the water.
Good info all around, but I wanted to bring up the part about the gloves. There have been studies that have shown that latex and several other glove materials are toxic to tadpoles.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by lateralis » April 1st, 2016, 6:09 pm

Acetic acid or vinegar also works well and you do not have to worry about chlorine residuals. There are many commercial footbath products available but do your homework on toxicity issues. A cat pan filled with a 10% chlorine mixture, or straight vinegar, is how I have rolled in the past at various facilities and field sites. Rinse well whatever you do and dry your boots in direct sun, uv rays and heat are a great sanitizer.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 1st, 2016, 9:43 pm

Nothing is effective unless its used effectively. Token reassurances of use without full understanding of an agent produces half measures - and in disease prevention - half measures are nil.

A better curriculum to model would be the medical and agricultural protocols, the " how we roll on sites and field" might not cut it. There needs to be additional training more in depth in method.

Contact and method are Key - the bottom of a boot is easy to sanitize ideologically, but at best if actually tested it would shock the hell out of you how incompletely shoes (or any other similar surface area treated same) is able to be rendered pathogenically safe. That's why in formats where there is no room for error, shoe covers are used.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 1st, 2016, 9:58 pm

A dangerous tendency is the emphasis on Rinsing, when it should be on contact duration and thorough coverage.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by BillMcGighan » April 2nd, 2016, 5:38 am

KS
Carrying the pathogens from one body of water to another is what you should be most aware of. I do not encourage the handling of anurans unless it is necessary for data acquisition and tissue samples. if you do handle frogs or salamanders do so with disposable gloves. Use a fresh pair for each different habitat. Place the used gloves in a sealed plastic bag for disposal later. Not only should you include boots and hands, but any instruments used for morphometric data measuring (like scales and rulers) or handling tools. You should make an isolated bleach solution in a sealed plastic container just specifically for disinfecting. This includes buckets and dip nets or anything else that maybe immersed in the pond. Best to just limit amphibian exploration to one isolated body of water per day. Then you can go home and properly disinfect everything and run your clothes through the washer. This will help to inhibit transmission from one separate location to another. But the best thing you can do is DON'T handle the herps and refrain from wading into the water.
Please do not misinterpret this as "poo-pooing" the idea, or “nay saying”.
I take disinfecting seriously, especially where habitats and species are sensitive.

- However -

Keeping the gate closed and the cattle in the pasture may be futile, since the reality is that we, herp oriented people, are a small, lunatic, fraction of society and for every one of us being conscientious, there are literally thousands of folks, vacationing, hiking, fishing, swimming, wading for small aquatic creatures, etc.


The good news is that several agencies are trying to help.
(e.g.

http://fishandboat.com/ais/NEPARC_Disin ... otocol.pdf

http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/mgray/SEPARC/SEPA ... sFinal.pdf

https://www.nps.gov/grsm/learn/nature/u ... cdecon.pdf..)

to name a few.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 2nd, 2016, 7:32 am

I know you aren't nay saying Bill, but the truth is, you are right. People can be very well meaning in the desire to disinfect - not just in this scenario but generally - and with full knowledge that cross contamination in a situation would be dire, but it is done perfunctorily. Its better than nothing is the most common mind set, and again this has been witnessed in many scenarios. I have watched professional veterans in the animal fields, open a bottle of bleach, splash it on an object and then give it a haphazard sweep of water from a hose, or soak feedng syringes for birds in solution de a tivated by age and debris and consequently accepting ciprofloxacin as a routine necessity. And these were animals that were their mainstay, the way they put food on the table and sent their kids to college.

Also a persons title and degree, also is no guarantee. Disinfection is event by event variable with the variables being myriad. Its not Who is disinfecting, the authority or academic event is nonwithstanding and apparently can infuse more complacency. Add bleach to complacency and you get a waste of time that creates its own problems.

The exceptions are of course abundant as Hannas post expresses, and in veterinary formats too the protocols are strict and standardized. But it is very unrealistic for the bottom of every boot. Such surface area is notoriously problematic to work with.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by klawnskale » April 2nd, 2016, 7:39 am

BillMcGighan wrote: Please do not misinterpret this as "poo-pooing" the idea, or “nay saying”.
I take disinfecting seriously, especially where habitats and species are sensitive.

- However -

Keeping the gate closed and the cattle in the pasture may be futile, since the reality is that we, herp oriented people, are a small, lunatic, fraction of society and for every one of us being conscientious, there are literally thousands of folks, vacationing, hiking, fishing, swimming, wading for small aquatic creatures, etc.


The good news is that several agencies are trying to help.
(e.g.

http://fishandboat.com/ais/NEPARC_Disin ... otocol.pdf

http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/mgray/SEPARC/SEPA ... sFinal.pdf

https://www.nps.gov/grsm/learn/nature/u ... cdecon.pdf..)

to name a few.
Bill: the reason I publicly emphasized and encouraged a hands off perspective is because I do not support the excessive or unneccesary handling of anurans ;especially here in the Western States since they are more highly impacted by Chytrid and Ranavirus than amphibian species in other parts of the country. Ofcourse no one can control the casual hiker or kid explorer wading through ponds and streams, but given the concerted efforts of agencies trying to re-establish populations of Yellow Legged Frogs and Red Legged Frogs here in California I think they too would support very limited or no contact. I recall one disastrous event which was supposed to be paved with good intentions when an independent environmental group took it upon themselves to try to re-establish a population of red legged frogs that used to inhabit a marsh in South Los Angeles County without the guidance of a knowledgeable biologist. They were not aware that the frogs they harvested from a stream in Santa Barbara to seed the marsh were 1) not the right subspecies 2)that population of frogs was infected by chytrid. As a result of this, Chytrid was introduced into the marsh ecosystem where it previously did not occur, the introduced frogs eventually all died and the Pseudacris population all ready inhabiting the marsh became infected by Chytrid.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Antonsrkn » April 2nd, 2016, 7:53 am

klawnskale wrote: I recall one disastrous event which was supposed to be paved with good intentions when an independent environmental group took it upon themselves to try to re-establish a population of red legged frogs that used to inhabit a marsh in South Los Angeles County without the guidance of a knowledgeable biologist. They were not aware that the frogs they harvested from a stream in Santa Barbara to seed the marsh were 1) not the right subspecies 2)that population of frogs was infected by chytrid. As a result of this, Chytrid was introduced into the marsh ecosystem where it previously did not occur, the introduced frogs eventually all died and the Pseudacris population all ready inhabiting the marsh became infected by Chytrid.
Source? I tried a quick google search of some key terms and was unable to find reference to this event, maybe my search terms were not the best. I'd like to read more about it.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by klawnskale » April 2nd, 2016, 8:05 am

Antonsrkn wrote:
klawnskale wrote: I recall one disastrous event which was supposed to be paved with good intentions when an independent
Source? I tried a quick google search of some key terms and was unable to find reference to this event, maybe my search terms were not the best. I'd like to read more about it.
I do not know of an official public document citing the incident. I know there was a report made by CA Dept Of Fish and Wildlife at the time of the discovery. This occurred back in 2010 and was told to me by an Ornithologist who was a regular volunteer working at the marsh.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by BillMcGighan » April 2nd, 2016, 8:23 am

KS
Bill: the reason I publicly emphasized and encouraged a hands off perspective is because I do not support the excessive or unneccesary handling of anurans ;especially here in the Western States since they are more highly impacted by Chytrid and Ranavirus than amphibian species in other parts of the country.
I, of course, agree and applaud.



Kelly
it is very unrealistic for the bottom of every boot. Such surface area is notoriously problematic to work with.
Old guy anecdote warning – quit reading now!
I was doing some work for our gov’t in Europe when the Swine Flu was a threat. Customs had enacted a “disinfection program” for shoes on people arriving from Europe. I returned from a trip and didn’t realize these procedures were in effect. Conversation and events went sort of like this:
Agent, “did you walk on a farm or anywhere in the countryside?”
Me, “yes, I hiked in several forested areas.”
Agent, “Please step on this disinfecting mat and we will spray your shoes.”
I stepped on the mat, they sprayed my shoes, and, when I started to speak, they ushered me along and out the door.
Had they listened, I was going to tell them that the shoes I wore in the countryside were in my luggage. The shoes they sprayed never saw anything but town pavement! :lol: :lol:

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 2nd, 2016, 8:28 am

Scrub boots of particulates in soapy water. Have hardware brushes that can get into the treads. Blast out with a cone pressure nozzle. Soak sole down in a strong bleach solution for at least 10 minutes. Dry sole up preferably in the sun. If you think you have to rinse them, you do it after they've air dried.

Remember that the top of boots and the toes contact habitat as well. So you see its not as easy as it sounds.

Hey Bill I was reading your post as I started posting same time. Great addendum love your OG stuff they are the best ~*~

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by NACairns » April 2nd, 2016, 9:05 am

I work on spring peepers in Canada and the US doing field work in 11 provinces and states so far. I know I could represent a long distance vector for pathogens. Bleach for me and my labmates is pretty key. We use >6%% bleach solution which we fine mist or soak all of our gear in before and after we go to a site paying special attention to anything that has direct contact with the substrate. When we get to a site we clean then spray our waders or boots and nets then let them sit while we set up the rest of our gear ready then reverse the procedure when we are done at each site. When possible put our also gear in the sun. This has shortened the life of our gear but this type of protocol should be good for both Ranavirus (Bryan et al. 2009) and Bd (Gold et al. 2012).

Bryan, L. K., C. A. Baldwin, M. J. Gray, and D. L. Miller. 2009. Efficacy of select disinfectants at inactivating Ranavirus.
Diseases of Aquatic Organisms 84:89-94.
Gold, K. K., P. D. Reed, D. A. Bemis, D. L. Miller, M. J. Gray, and M. J. Souza. 2012. Efficacy of common
disinfectants and terbinafine in inactivating the growth of Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis in culture. Diseases
of Aquatic Organisms 107:77-81.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 2nd, 2016, 9:19 am

NACairns wrote:I work on spring peepers in Canada and the US doing field work in 11 provinces and states so far. I know I could represent a long distance vector for pathogens. Bleach for me and my labmates is pretty key. We use >6%% bleach solution which we fine mist or soak all of our gear in before and after we go to a site paying special attention to anything that has direct contact with the substrate. When we get to a site we clean then spray our waders or boots and nets then let them sit while we set up the rest of our gear ready then reverse the procedure when we are done at each site. When possible put our also gear in the sun. This has shortened the life of our gear but this type of protocol should be good for both Ranavirus (Bryan et al. 2009) and Bd (Gold et al. 2012).

Bryan, L. K., C. A. Baldwin, M. J. Gray, and D. L. Miller. 2009. Efficacy of select disinfectants at inactivating Ranavirus.
Diseases of Aquatic Organisms 84:89-94.
Gold, K. K., P. D. Reed, D. A. Bemis, D. L. Miller, M. J. Gray, and M. J. Souza. 2012. Efficacy of common
disinfectants and terbinafine in inactivating the growth of Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis in culture. Diseases
of Aquatic Organisms 107:77-81.
Yeah bleach is hard on stuff, especially if combined with hot water (not referring to the excellent method you have described)

Soapy water does not need to be hot for the mechanical action of its use to prime surfaces before bleach application (talking about soiled boots - again in use apart from the excellent protocol you've described) and it mechanically does its part in antisepsis. Besides unless water is 130 + it isn't going to count in heat merit anyway.

This whole topic opens up potentiality for innovation and adoption of techniques and more timely user friendly method, which starts with understanding types of disinfection, and the way they actually work on surfaces and circumstances.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Jimi » April 2nd, 2016, 9:33 am

Something not discussed yet in this thread, is the fact that liquid bleach loses its efficacy pretty rapidly. That gallon of liquid bleach you bought 6 months ago has probably off-gassed enough chlorine to make it virtually harmless. If you kept it in the fridge and didn't open it, maybe not, but...who does that? Really, the way bottled bleach is normally kept (in the garage or laundry room) you should turn over your stock every 3 months if you want to actually kill "wee beasties" with it.

Alternatively, consider granular "pool shock" (calcium hypochlorite). It doesn't degrade like the liquid and it's way more concentrated and also very lightweight (so hypothetically speaking, you could take it with you, make up solutions onsite, & treat gear in a bucket, bag, or tub).

Biosecurity is an important topic, thanks for resurrecting it.

cheers

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by lateralis » April 2nd, 2016, 10:45 am

A better curriculum to model would be the medical and agricultural protocols, the " how we roll on sites and field" might not cut it. There needs to be additional training more in depth in method.
Kelly what I mentioned are standardized disinfection materials used globally in zoos, medical and agricultural venues and research stations to avoid/minimize translocation of all manner of pathogens and invasive species. I provided enough information to lead the OP into their own data mining exercise, I am not paid to teach methods here lol. Several other excellent points were made but your inordinate amount of interest in tearing my post apart (through several follow up posts) is amusing. Your comment about rinsing not being important shows your lack of knowledge or you simply like being controversial or both. Of course you have to have the rest of the procedure down but rinsing is paramount at the end. Based on your neckline your youthful arrogance appears to be the source of your angst.

Chlorine can very easily leave residuals that are potentially damaging to aquatic organisms. I just finished tweaking the chlorine dosing system that keeps quagga veligers (baby mussels) out of our infrastructure so I have some background on this subject.

When you have as much time in the trenches as I have we can talk but for now try to listen and learn, you might see the diamonds amongst all the coal.

...remember to rinse well everyone ;)

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 2nd, 2016, 11:36 am

Lateralis - my posts had nothing -Nothing to do with contention of your post. huh?

You're being defensive for no reason, as a matter of fact if broken down in point our posts are correlative!!

I wasn't thinking of you during any of my posting, and the content of my posts about the topic here are echoed same throughout my input here on this forum, it is a topic I have been very involved with in my work, in zoo, veterinary, and managerial animal care positions spanning 35 + years of service and of intense personal interest as well, as I am a geek.

Read again with less personal projection and you will see I specifically said the emphasis on rinsing was not as important as agent application and duration. I stand by that BTW. Also it is true the "residuals" of bleach on boots I deemed as less significant were not aquatic in mind but of terra activity with snake fungus in mind, which I didn't state, that's true.

I must thank you for the compliment on my neckline i guess, as that picture was taken in 2014, and I turned 55 this past St Patricks day.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 2nd, 2016, 12:04 pm

In my observation of human perceptions regarding pathogens and disinfection has shown that popular cultural attitudes color behavior in unbalanced belief based paradigm.

We now live in a chemophobic mind set - where a quick douse of bleach is commonly seen as "completely deadly to germs" and a lengthy rinse is needed to protect our world from its toxic mojo. It is part of our daily dose of Living Green.

THIS was the underlying sentiment of what I was thinking as I posted.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by klawnskale » April 3rd, 2016, 7:26 am

Kelly: Check your PM Inbox...

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Bryan Hamilton » April 3rd, 2016, 10:47 am

I'm glad to see this important discussing on the forum. Its that much more relevant given the recent discovery of White Nose Syndrome from a bat in Washington state.

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.as ... wFkS_krJpg

Disease ecology is the new "habitat loss" in wildlife management. I'm really encouraged that our community is working towards preventing disease spread in our herp populations.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 3rd, 2016, 6:55 pm

Just a little note, when disinfecting anything with an irregular or inlet laden surface, don't forget to pick them up and give it a swirl or a bump, to relieve any bubbles or trapped air pockets that defeat contact. I would soak my indoor purpose work shoes soles in Nolvasan when I got some of that for a deal and for my purpose it was good.

The Spraying method many of the posters have recommended has a superior edge in application, without the bubble potential.

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lateralis
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by lateralis » April 4th, 2016, 9:25 am

i don't project much but I do think critically about the responses I see and my replies. One of the things that has driven me away from this place has been the proliferation of the "here let me set you straight crowd". Probably the most important reason I'll limit my future input to writing travel pieces for Scott :lol:
:beer:

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » April 4th, 2016, 6:47 pm

Honestly, I didn't see any of that in Kelly's responses. It truly seemed to me that she was sharing information she has learned in the trenches.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 5th, 2016, 4:38 pm

For those who are concerned about bleach residual before they hit water, I dont know if this would be of interest but in my unglamorous trenches I always had either a bottle of Am Quel or Prime on the shelf by the tub&hose where I washed everything, and used it as a drench before a final rinse for aquatic oriented artifacts to expedite my disinfection process. How long I drenched or soaked depended on the porousness of the item, but it enhances And shortens rinse time while providing more of a guarantee of water safety. For my cleaning purposes I disregarded aquaria dosage, and went stronger, to ensure penetrative dechlorination, and then gave a final wash over with plain water. Both Prime and AmQuel are solutions of sodium thiosulfate, but for portable purposes Prime might be more practical as it is a much stronger concentrate so a smaller bottle goes a longer way.

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » April 6th, 2016, 4:26 pm


Old guy anecdote warning – quit reading now!
I was doing some work for our gov’t in Europe when the Swine Flu was a threat. Customs had enacted a “disinfection program” for shoes on people arriving from Europe. I returned from a trip and didn’t realize these procedures were in effect. Conversation and events went sort of like this:
Agent, “did you walk on a farm or anywhere in the countryside?”
Me, “yes, I hiked in several forested areas.”
Agent, “Please step on this disinfecting mat and we will spray your shoes.”
I stepped on the mat, they sprayed my shoes, and, when I started to speak, they ushered me along and out the door.
Had they listened, I was going to tell them that the shoes I wore in the countryside were in my luggage. The shoes they sprayed never saw anything but town pavement! :lol: :lol:
I love this!

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 9th, 2016, 8:58 am

:lol: :beer: Agreed !

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mfb
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by mfb » April 9th, 2016, 9:09 am

Glad to see so many folks serious about preventing disease transmission. We have a disinfection protocol for our waders and nets that reduces the life of the gear, but is worth it for safety.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 9th, 2016, 10:23 am

This is one of those opportunities where we as a community can really sink our teeth in. There is good solid data to work with and the specifics of our activities can build on them in innovative ways.

The intimate knowledge of terrain and habitat possessed by herpers on this forum is unparalleled.

In continued discussion of it, any gradient of dissention of view should be kept impersonal and clean, to help assure its reception.

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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Bryan Hamilton » April 10th, 2016, 9:12 am

There is quite a bit of guidance based on lab work we can use for reference:

http://www.salamanderfungus.org/resourc ... rocedures/

http://amphibianark.org/pdf/Amphibian_D ... Manual.pdf

I have a pdf of the PARC guidelines for disinfection that I can share. Just PM your e-mail address.

I know there is some movement toward universal guidelines that would apply to mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds, fish, mollusks, ect. Right now the guidance is too taxa and disease specific IMO.

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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Bryan Hamilton » April 11th, 2016, 9:55 am

A recent report by USGS on salamander fungus:

National Wildlife Health Center
Wildlife Health Bulletin 2016-03
Batrachochytrium salamandrivorans (Bsal):
An Emerging Disease of Salamanders

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/w ... 0Final.pdf

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 11th, 2016, 11:25 am

A kind of mantra of manner develops that takes the place of what seems cumbersome or time consuming, with that full awareness that there is more to the unseen world than that which we can see. The way tools and instruments are set down and what they contact becomes a conscious automatic in small practices, the nose or business end of a tool laid off the edge or upright everytime, working and maneuvering to create factor distances or shorten them, depending on task. It becomes second nature and doesn't take more time, just uses time better.

'A disaster averted is never rewarded ' .. I heard that somewhere and Ive experienced it, especially some workplaces but there is peace and satisfaction in knowing one has covered the bases in terms of eliminating a risk factor.

Biological hygiene is science but its execution is an art.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 11th, 2016, 11:47 am

It would be cool to have Bryans links in a sticky. Or some similar easily found category. They are so useful in so many ways. Broad spectrum value

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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by TravisK » April 19th, 2016, 8:31 am

A little off topic but have there been any studies on the pathogens being transmitted via waterfowl?

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lateralis
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by lateralis » April 19th, 2016, 9:45 am

Check Reynolds, Miranda and Cumming 2015 in biodiversity review. The short answer is yes, wading birds are known to help in the dispersal of aquatic invasive species.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Don't Tread On Me... BLEACH & BOOTS

Post by Kelly Mc » April 19th, 2016, 12:31 pm

Rational and important addition to topic.. and great to see you're still here with us, lateralis!

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