
western mudsnake

Grahams crayfish snake

and bairds ratsnake

Chris
Moderator: Scott Waters
You're not pickier, just giving credit, where credit is due. My reply above hints at something exactly the same as what you describe road cruising. My situation involved a mexican hognose I found as a "lifer" for someone that rolled up 15 minutes later.mikemike wrote:If another car spots it and I pull over to check it out, doesn't count.
I know I'm much pickier than a lot of people with my list, but I can't help it. Haha
Exactly. I have a few friends that are like that. Nothing against it or them, it's just not for me. haha. I prefer to do my work and let my work show for me. I have yet to check a lot of target species off for that very reason though, that I've had people find, sometimes within ten feet of where I'm actually standing. But the way I see it, someone else finding something at least shows that I'm in the right area, and could potentially turn another of whatever up within due time.ChrisNM wrote:You're not pickier, just giving credit, where credit is due. My reply above hints at something exactly the same as what you describe road cruising. My situation involved a mexican hognose I found as a "lifer" for someone that rolled up 15 minutes later.mikemike wrote:If another car spots it and I pull over to check it out, doesn't count.
I know I'm much pickier than a lot of people with my list, but I can't help it. Haha
Then it should count because you would have got to it before it got off the road had that other car not been there.chad ks wrote:To me it's idiosyncratic to say that DORs shouldn't count, what if it gets hit right in front of you?
I wouldn't count it because there's no certainty it would have still been there if it wasn't hit.chad ks wrote:What if you found a freshly hit but DOR Crotalus lannomi?
I do, with an asterisk. Just because it happened to be dead doesn't mean that I didn't find it "in situ".I was just curious how many of you guys count DORs as lifers.
Nope, this thread just saved me from asking the question myself and actually starting the thread. This thread actually allows us as a community to air out and brainstorm on what should and should not be counted as a lifer.justinm wrote:Chris,<BR sab="769"><BR sab="770">I think this a pretty odd time to bitch about someone?
Plenty over myself, matter of fact if you ask one of the participants in this thread I'm actually rather humble, open, and welcoming and rarely, if ever ask for anything in return. Hell, I even invited him and another forum goer to help me years ago for a survey. That said, I also enjoyed my time spent in the field with the certain individual you and I speak of. We had fun, learned some photography pointers from one another, and got to goof around with herps - can't complain about that one bit. What did bug me some was that particular trip wound up becoming centric around that individual and her needs (demands) once 2 other herpers joined up. But, I guess that's my own fault as no one was pointing a gun at me keeping me there. Unfortunately for me, I forgive, just don't forget very easily.I know who you're talking about and I helped this person find a lot of lifers and was very happy to share in her joy when she visited my area. To be honest I think you're kind of a kook if you don't count a lifer when you help lift a piece of AC, get over yourself already.
Dead wrong again. I just view lifers differently. It was the way my best friend and I viewed it from the get go, well before we were even driving; we were just competitive with one another that way. Where you do have me, is that I try to be the best I can at finding things of my own. But I also greatly enjoy and relish in herping within groups. Those group (4+ people) outtings for me started in 2002 while enrolled in the NMSU Herpetology course and grew to what's become an annual outting that started at the Chiricahuas and has now just become somewhere of choosing for Labor Day Weekend.You sound like a certain better than everyone else person from a certain state that starts with a certain letter K.
Agreed, but where I don't agree is when even within a group you can wind up being quite a distance away from one another. As such, I've already stated my stance on that matter. It's not a matter of me trying to be better than someone other than against my own self.I count lifers if the guys I'm with find it and I'm there to enjoy the excitement. That is the joy of herping with one or two people. You can find even more things.
Not in situ and molested....chad ks wrote:I was once on a trip when someone found an obscurus nearby. We all high tailed it over and saw the critter in situ and took some shots of it. I count it on my lifelist because I saw the animal just after it was found and because it was unmolested (they're protected) until a permitted person came over to measure it. That's fair in my opinion...however if the situation had been slightly different (for instance if I hadn't seen the snake in situ or at all, or if it was shown later) then I wouldn't count it. Even as it is I include a notation to suggest that it wasn't my find. In some situations it is always a group find because it requires many manhours to find a critter and in certain conditions it's just plain luck.
...Thus I side with this rationale. I guess poor wording on my part to convey what you've just done in very much fewer words. The exception is I don't life list it. That circumstance is more of a mental note, got to see and possibly photograph it, now I need to personally list it. I think of it as what the asterisk is to baseball statistics.There is, though, a reason why it's blatantly obvious (imo) that a find like what I just described is not the same as actually making the find personally. And that reason is the fact that if and when I do lay eyes upon and discover an individual such as the one mentioned above, I will get (I believe) an entirely different degree of satisfaction from actually sighting the animal. A notation on my lifelist (be it DOR or a group find) is meant to indicate that there's still reason to revisit the lifelisted animal and search for a live specimen of a personal find. Just a few thoughts.
While it is nice to find out what other peoples thoughts are on the subject, I think everyone should decide their own criteria for their life lists. I will not be changing my list to your rules, and I'd be absolutely shocked if you took up my criteria.ChrisNM wrote: This thread actually allows us as a community to air out and brainstorm on what should and should not be counted as a lifer.
You just made me cry.Natalie McNear wrote:frankly, most lizards bore me
I don't, but I did put some of my non CA herps from my lifelist in the NAFHA as unvouchered, when there were not a lot of vouchered records from the area and I'm sure of where it was and positive on the ID.Natalie McNear wrote:Do a lot of you guys actually keep a physical list of species you've seen and when you found it and whatnot? Either in writing or on the computer I mean.
I've heard there was an anecdotal report of Aniella pulchra in Marin County, but subsequent surveys turned up nothing. Maybe it was just a sharp-tailed snake that crawled through yellow pigment?Natalie McNear wrote:LOL, can't help it... It probably stems from growing up in an area where there are only four species of lizards and all of them are extremely common.
Competition seems silly since no two people have had identical opportunities to herp the same geography at same time of year, but I still think it is neat to see what others have found.Nathan Hall wrote:Competition? No. I (we) simply like finding species that we've not found/seen. Finding new species to me is a fundamentally integral part to herping. I've never posted a list for others to see. Quite frankly, I don't care. To each his/her own.
And with good reason.Natalie McNear wrote:Finding vagrant birds is rare in most areas, so usually the migrants you add to your life list were originally found by someone else who reported that find to an email list or something. Herpers wouldn't take to that very well.