It is currently December 20th, 2014, 2:59 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 231 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 9:25 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:51 am
Posts: 1006
Location: Oceanside
It rained a couple days ago, it's sunny, and I'm going........out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 9:50 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 11th, 2010, 7:43 am
Posts: 1228
Location: kaukauna, wi
first of all i have to say that i didn't get through all of the replys. i did notice a trend in the ones i read.

it seems that the argument is based off of one's personal beliefs. for the record, i do not collect. i'd rather see that no one collects, but i'd be a hypocrite to impose my values on others.

field herping to me is just as it says: going out in the field to look for herps. i do believe that the term "field" has an implication that points towards "native" herps. this is relative to where one resides. this, i believe, is a distinction between deli-cup folks and ourselves. i realize that there is, and will be overlap. there is generally a mind-set difference between the two. there is also a mind-set difference within as well.

these differences should be explored. i think this thread is going to be extremely valuable to bring us together, even though our individual views are different.

personal collection is part of the evolution of the individual. i did a lot of it as a kid. those of us older evolutionized field herpers are leaning in the direction of conservation. well, conservation entails protection for all the species to continue. collection hinders this agenda. i personally believe that this discussion should sway towards "responsible collection". this idea will be viewed differently by each individual, but good stuff will come of it.

let's use bull snakes for example. we do not have a lot of them in wisconsin. they are protected from collection. in other states, they are as common as garter snakes are here. those populations can withstand some collecting. it all depends on where you are doing the collecting. each species creates a different view on the subject, and it is all relative to the individuals mind-set. i think the best approach for those of us who do not like collecting is to speak our minds, but not chastise those who do. "responsible collecting" is ok. healthy pops can take it. some pops cannot. i will stand on one principle that i hope all collectors will adopt. DO NOT TAKE ADULTS. grab a juvi when they are available. you'll most likely be doing that snake a favor. the mortality rate is extremely high for the babies. the adults have what it takes to survive, and we owe them the respect they deserve. oh, and one last thing. know the laws, and stay right with them. as soon as collecting becomes "selfish", you lose any credibility as a respectable herper, at least to me.

those are my thoughts.

-ben


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 10:24 am 
gbin wrote:
azatrox wrote:
That being said, I look at it like religion
Uhmmm, ok guys, but I really don't know what you mean. Are you suggesting, as Justin seemed to me to be (I'm still hoping for clarification from him on this), that you think everyone should just define and use the term "field herping" to suit themselves? If so, how would anyone know what anyone else was talking about?
It's simple Gerry, denominations. We could make it a rule that everyone must declare their denomination which would then be attached to their avatar.

A few examples:

Pentecostailers - believe in handling and tailing venomous snakes as part of "field herping".

Mormons - believe the Western Yellow-bellied Racer is the only true snake.

West Burrow Tortoisest - protest at all reptile trade shows.

NAFHAfarians - believe that if you don't enter data, field herping is all for nought, man.

The free herping evangelicals - believe in spreading the "good news" by way of DUW.

NOTE: All of these denominations believe in "collecting", as they are all supported by the "collections" of their members.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 10:35 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 9:06 am
Posts: 733
Location: Montana
^ Easily the funniest post in this thread! That, Rob, is why I like reading your schtuff! NAFHAfarinas... Ah ha ha ha ha ha!

-Cole


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 10:59 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:31 pm
Posts: 254
Location: PA
Cole Grover wrote:
^ Easily the funniest post in this thread!


Without a doubt. :beer: Hopefully, most will appreciate this thread as a critical thinking exercise and won't take it too seriously.

Brandon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 11:00 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 12:31 pm
Posts: 628
I consder myself a Bufoist, all is as suffering and all Anuran calls are speaking the same message of oneness. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 11:07 am 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Posts: 7204
Location: Hesperia, California.
Terry Vandeventer wrote:
Others take great joy in catching a specimen or two home to observe.


"Field herping" is a hobby, nothing more. One could guide field herping forays for a fee, but it will never become a full time occupation. It's just field herping that brings in a little cash. Commercial collecting is business.

There is nothing wrong with taking specimens for pets, breeding stock, or even to sell, as long as it's done in moderation, concern for the individual animal's welfare, and within the boundries of the law. What I personally despise is being told by well-meaning but ill-informed "herp-huggers" that I should never, ever touch or catch an animal for fear of stressing it or hurting its feelings.

Cheers,

Terry Vandeventer
resident curmudgeon


I think you have a typo with 'taking' and 'catching'
As for field herping being just a hobby... that's of course true for the hobbiest, but for some (researchers/bio consultants, ect) it's a career/job. (luckeee :roll: :lol: ) Not trying to nit-pick... my actual point here is that for some of us 'data collectors' the 'hobby' is now to try to function as 'citizen scientists'... assisting the true professionals, through our database, in working towards better species management.... gaining protection for those species that need it, reducing the PP where appropriate, habitat conservation, ect. My point is that through data collection, we have all the typical enjoyment of field herping as a hobby (whether that be observation, photography, responsible collecting, ect) but we also are committed to IMPROVING the hobby for all herpers, ourselves included. We try to give back, as well as take, from our 'hobby' which to me (off the top of my head) seems a rather unique characteristic for 'hobbiests' in general.
As a sidenote... data collection is not always as 'hands off' as many people may think.... depending on what data is required... measuring, weighing, determining sex, even genetic sampling, such as collecting tail tips from lizards.
This is in no way a rebuttal of anything you have said... just a additional 'FYI' for a certain segment in the 'fieldherper' spectrum.
I will say however, that the added commitment to 'improve the hobby' gives the data collector (IMO) a leg up in the 'ethical standing' dept... :D best regards... jim

Rob... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
As a J. Lemm acolyte... I guess I'm a 'Lemming'... though I do draw the line when he chases a racer towards a cliff... :roll: :lol: :lol:


Last edited by hellihooks on October 7th, 2011, 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 11:26 am 
User avatar

Joined: May 14th, 2011, 11:16 pm
Posts: 1029
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
I'm a Blind Brahminy, at least when I don't have my glasses on, but I secretly worship the rain god, Batrachoseps.

JimM


Top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 11:31 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:45 am
Posts: 1439
Location: One of the boys from Illinois
bwahahaha! Flipping brilliant! :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

-Mike
Denomination: taoist monkey rockhopper. We prefer to sit and contemplate the unflipped rock, and will fling poo at anyone with a collection plate. We're mostly bagnostic, and aside from the sack-religious, we'll herp with anyone, but prefer uta-tarians, gray bandscendentalists and crotalitarians.

RobK wrote:
It's simple Gerry, denominations. We could make it a rule that everyone must declare their denomination which would then be attached to their avatar.

A few examples:

Pentecostailers - believe in handling and tailing venomous snakes as part of "field herping".

Mormons - believe the Western Yellow-bellied Racer is the only true snake.

West Burrow Tortoisest - protest at all reptile trade shows.

NAFHAfarians - believe that if you don't enter data, field herping is all for nought, man.

The free herping evangelicals - believe in spreading the "good news" by way of DUW.

NOTE: All of these denominations believe in "collecting", as they are all supported by the "collections" of their members.


Top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 11:42 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:52 pm
Posts: 2288
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Quote:
NOTE: All of these denominations believe in "collecting", as they are all supported by the "collections" of their members.




Collecting members sounds like it'd be against the law or at least unpopular with the guys i the group :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 11:47 am 
User avatar

Joined: August 18th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Posts: 347
Location: Hilton Head Island, South Cackalacky
Mike Pingleton wrote:
bwahahaha! Flipping brilliant! :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

-Mike
Denomination: taoist monkey rockhopper. We prefer to sit and contemplate the unflipped rock, and will fling poo at anyone with a collection plate. We're mostly bagnostic, and aside from the sack-religious, we'll herp with anyone, but prefer uta-tarians, gray bandscendentalists and crotalitarians.
[/quote]

LMAO :lol: :thumb:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 12:18 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
RobK wrote:
It's simple Gerry, denominations. We could make it a rule that everyone must declare their denomination which would then be attached to their avatar.

A few examples:

Pentecostailers - believe in handling and tailing venomous snakes as part of "field herping".

Mormons - believe the Western Yellow-bellied Racer is the only true snake.

West Burrow Tortoisest - protest at all reptile trade shows.

NAFHAfarians - believe that if you don't enter data, field herping is all for nought, man.

The free herping evangelicals - believe in spreading the "good news" by way of DUW.

NOTE: All of these denominations believe in "collecting", as they are all supported by the "collections" of their members.

Absolutely hilarious! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks, Rob!

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 2:07 pm 
Mike Pingleton wrote:
but prefer uta-tarians, gray bandscendentalists and crotalitarians.
I used to hang with the crotalitarians, but all they talked about was Hellbenders and Fire Salamanders. They were too intense for me, so back in the late 60's, I became a Loggerhead.
Image

Oh, and nothing against the gray bandscendentalists, however, they seemed a bit amphibophobic.


Last edited by RobK on October 7th, 2011, 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 2:16 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:48 am
Posts: 353
Location: Seattle, WA
Great and funny thread :lol:

My opinion: field herping does not exclude collection any more than sport-fishing excludes take. However, I don't think all seeking of herps falls under the title "field herping". Commercial collectors, people who collect for food, skins etc. have a different philosophy about herps than every field herper I have ever known. There seems to be some overlap with commercial collectors for the pet trade and field herpers, but that is probably because both appreciate the animals in their live form, rather than their dead cash value.

We should be a part of continually defining the term. Field Herping is what we at FHF collectively say it is, IMHO, and I believe the consensus here is that certain people who search for herps are NOT field herpers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 4:20 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
... Field Herping is what we at FHF collectively say it is, IMHO, and I believe the consensus here is that certain people who search for herps are NOT field herpers.

I'll buy the first part, Jeremiah, at least so far as we here at FHF are capable of representing the greater herp community (we're not yet all here, you know ;) ). That's why I started this thread. But I'm not aware of the direction of the consensus you mention in the second part. In fact, the answers posted here so far seem to suggest just the opposite; the most popular answer at this point appears to be that field herping is the pursuit of herps outdoors, regardless of what plans the persons involved ultimately have for the objects of their pursuit.

And I agree, some of the funniest humor I've seen at FHF has already been posted to this thread, and some folks seem to be just warming up! :D

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 5:27 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:48 am
Posts: 353
Location: Seattle, WA
What we need is a poll I guess. Maybe that isn't yet the consensus, but for the future good of field herping as a legitimate hobby, we would be wise to move toward that consensus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 5:38 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:45 am
Posts: 1439
Location: One of the boys from Illinois
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
What we need is a poll I guess. Maybe that isn't yet the consensus, but for the future good of field herping as a legitimate hobby, we would be wise to move toward that consensus.


I agree. This thread certainly has produced no community consensus.

-Mike


Top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 5:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: April 14th, 2011, 8:12 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Pincher Creek, Alberta, Canada
And even if this forum came to a decision... there are plenty of herpers out there who aren't members or who are here so infrequently, that any consensus would be largely inconsequential anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 6:00 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
... Maybe that isn't yet the consensus, but for the future good of field herping as a legitimate hobby, we would be wise to move toward that consensus.

And folks who feel that way should try to hurry us all along in that direction - for our own good, of course, no matter what we might want - by pretending a consensus/evolution/whatever has already occurred even though it's clear that it actually hasn't, eh? I'm sorry to be so blunt, but that's despicably dishonest and manipulative. What's that old expression about "the road to hell..."?

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 6:18 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 27th, 2010, 12:27 pm
Posts: 963
Location: Terlingua / Marfa, Texas
gbin wrote:
What's that old expression about "the road to hell..."?

"... is where all the collectors field herp" ?


Top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 6:31 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:52 pm
Posts: 2288
Location: Amarillo, Texas
think it'd be too hot to road cruise on that road.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 6:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
I'm afraid I just can't find anything to laugh about in that kind of behavior, Daryl... :(


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 6:46 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 27th, 2010, 12:27 pm
Posts: 963
Location: Terlingua / Marfa, Texas
gbin wrote:
I'm afraid I just can't find anything to laugh about in that kind of behavior, Daryl... :(
It was sarcasm Gerry. Just my twisted way of making fun of those that are so desperate to disassociate themselves from the very foundation of herping that they would sooner steal a historically inclusive term than create a new one. Most of them owe their love of herps their own past collecting or that of others, yet they now stand in judgment of anyone that would remove a herp from the wild. Now some of them seem willing to change our language in an effort to excommunicate those with differing views. I don't get that, so I choose to mock it.


Last edited by Daryl Eby on October 7th, 2011, 6:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 6:54 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
Ah. I should have known you wouldn't have made light of something like that. Sorry I misread you, Amigo.

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 7:04 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 27th, 2010, 12:27 pm
Posts: 963
Location: Terlingua / Marfa, Texas
gbin wrote:
Sorry I misread you, Amigo.

No problemo dude. I can't expect everyone to follow my twisted ramblings. Heck, I don't understand half of what I say. Whatever the heck that means. :?


Top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 7:25 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:48 am
Posts: 353
Location: Seattle, WA
Gerry and Darryl, If you guys weren't so keen to argue your opinion on this you would have noticed that I am not in the "no collecting" camp.

Skin traders, subsistence hunters and Sweetwater morons are not field herpers, here is why: Generally speaking none of those three are interested in the living animal whereas field herpers are. Those three groups find value in the death of snakes, field herpers (even those who collect) find value in the LIFE of snakes. Gerry, tell me one good thing that could come of continuing to associate us with them?

I think this is where we differ from them. Whether it is coming to the surface in this thread or not, I still think there is a consensus. Lets just go ahead and test it right now. If you are reading this right now and are a part of the FHF community and you find more value in a dead snake than a live one, go ahead and say so in a reply. (I don't think we will see that reply around here, lol)

I think rather than argue, can we instead all come to agreement on the following:

field herpers are...

1) people who seek live wild herps for recreation, for scientific study, or occasionally for profit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 7:48 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
Skin traders, subsistence hunters and Sweetwater morons are not field herpers, here is why...

Jeremiah, of course you're as entitled to your opinion as the next person, and no justification is required (at least in this thread). As I said, though, it seems to me despicably dishonest and manipulative for you to go beyond that and assert that your opinion is the consensus opinion, even when contradictory evidence is staring you in the face, just because it's what you want people to believe.

Jeremiah wrote:
... Gerry, tell me one good thing that could come of continuing to associate us with them?

That's entirely beside the point I made above. Neither you nor any other individual here has the authority to declare what most/all of us believe. People have a right to make up their own minds, and the community as a whole has a right to be represented honestly. That means the bad as well as the good, by whomever's definition of those terms.

And this thread is meant to look into what folks here believe, not to discuss the bad and good of collecting, kill harvesting, etc. Start your own thread for that kind of discussion.

Jeremiah wrote:
Whether it is coming to the surface in this thread or not, I still think there is a consensus...

Feel free to think that, as I said. (Though as I pointed out, this thread suggests that if there is consensus it lies in a different direction than what you want.) But please stop attempting to make it happen by dishonest manipulation, or you can expect to be called on it.

Jeremiah wrote:
Lets just go ahead and test it right now...

Rather than attempt to hijack my thread with this, too, I'll again ask you to start your own.

Jeremiah wrote:
I think rather than argue, can we instead all come to agreement on the following:

field herpers are...

1) people who seek live wild herps for recreation, for scientific study, or occasionally for profit.

No, we can't, and you'd know that if you bothered to so much as skim this thread and were honest with yourself and us about what you found here.

And for the record, I've so far eaten lots of alligator, some frogs' legs and rattlesnake and once upon a time even a bit of skink. The first three were quite tasty and I'd have no problem eating them again in the future, the last one not so much. :P

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 7:57 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 12:31 pm
Posts: 628
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
Gerry and Darryl, If you guys weren't so keen to argue your opinion on this you would have noticed that I am not in the "no collecting" camp.

Skin traders, subsistence hunters and Sweetwater morons are not field herpers, here is why: Generally speaking none of those three are interested in the living animal whereas field herpers are. Those three groups find value in the death of snakes, field herpers (even those who collect) find value in the LIFE of snakes. Gerry, tell me one good thing that could come of continuing to associate us with them?

I think this is where we differ from them. Whether it is coming to the surface in this thread or not, I still think there is a consensus. Lets just go ahead and test it right now. If you are reading this right now and are a part of the FHF community and you find more value in a dead snake than a live one, go ahead and say so in a reply. (I don't think we will see that reply around here, lol)

I think rather than argue, can we instead all come to agreement on the following:

field herpers are...

1) people who seek live wild herps for recreation, for scientific study, or occasionally for profit.


Jeremiah, this is just DESPICABLE behavior! :lol: ;)

What about when I go out with the intention to pickle any range extensions, am I herping then?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 8:17 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 27th, 2010, 12:27 pm
Posts: 963
Location: Terlingua / Marfa, Texas
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
Gerry and Darryl, If you guys weren't so ...
I don't recall singling you out as on any particular side. If I did so and got it wrong, I'm sorry. I'm not really in any camp. Just doing my own thing, trying to make sense of my own conflicted thinking (being generally opposed to some types of collection, but not believing I have the right to impose my ideals), and letting others do their thing.

Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
Skin traders, subsistence hunters and Sweetwater morons are not field herpers, here is why: Generally speaking none of those three are interested in the living animal whereas field herpers are. Those three groups find value in the death of snakes, field herpers (even those who collect) find value in the LIFE of snakes.
I think I can agree that describing lethal take hunters as "field herpers" makes no sense, but for completely different reasons than yours. As I mentioned in the "Are these field herpers?" thread, I doubt they refer to themselves as "field herpers". Plus, I'm not aware of any history of them being called "field herpers". Therefore, not using the term for them neither narrows the past or present use of the term, nor does it exclude anyone that seeks to be a part of our community. However, as I also stated in that thread, if any lethal take hunters were to describe themselves as "field herpers", I'd be loathe to try and "correct" them.

Quote:
I think rather than argue, can we instead all come to agreement on the following:

field herpers are...

1) people who seek live wild herps for recreation, for scientific study, or occasionally for profit.

I have two problems with that. First, it excludes those that might occasionally pickle a herp for study or scientific record. Second, I'd prefer "for personal use" to "for profit". It's more inclusive since most "personal use" of collected herps does not lead to direct profit. Also, I'd hate to codify "profit" into any formal definition of herping.


Top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 8:54 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:48 am
Posts: 353
Location: Seattle, WA
Daryl, I think my definition can easily be adjusted to accommodate the things you mention without changing much. As I wrote it I was intending it to include pickling, with the second part about scientific collection.

Gerry-whatever dude, don't get all bent out of shape. You can't argue with my point because its right on. Field Herpers like herps alive, period. Even if they occasionally pickle for science :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 7th, 2011, 9:06 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 27th, 2010, 12:27 pm
Posts: 963
Location: Terlingua / Marfa, Texas
Jeremiah_Easter wrote:
Field Herpers like herps alive, period. Even if they occasionally pickle for science :)
Even when they pickle them it is mainly out of an interest in understanding and conserving the species.


Top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 2:54 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 11:17 am
Posts: 1078
I believe that the term herping pretty much originated with collecting herps. By adding the 'field' part I guess that can distinguish the practice to a more specific branch of herping that has a more academic orientation but it seems that many researchers also collect. The practice of pickling seems to have fallen out of favor but animals are still collected along with body parts for research purpose. I'm affraid to use a word that I used before for some reason but.

People who keep and breed herps are also called herpers. I think by adding the 'field'... it just means we aren't talking about armchair herpers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 3:23 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:46 pm
Posts: 286
I touched a snake once and it field funny.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 6:04 am 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Posts: 7204
Location: Hesperia, California.
once, a couple of years ago, J. Teel and I happened upon a carload of teenagers up in the San Gabes, getting ready to shoot a rattlesnake, for 'sport'. They were specifically looking for rattlesnakes to kill, for fun. of course, we didn't let them, and they were very curious about us collecting data and taking pics.
I noticed that the snake in question had at some point suffered a broken back midway down it's body, and could neither move nor feel anything, so I picked it up and sorta 'shamed' the teens with it... "is this what you need to kill, cause it's so dangerous? ... ect. By the time I was done they were all very sheepish, and promised that they would no longer kill snakes.
The point of the story however, is there are people out there who hunt and kill snakes for sport, rather than for food or profit. they are snake-hunters, not fieldherpers.
And yes... I made sure that they understood that if they ever tried to do what I did... they would get tagged. In 'my area' wanton killing of rattlesnakes is not far behind accidential roadkill... :roll: jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 6:23 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:37 am
Posts: 880
Location: NE Ohio
Good topic, unfortunately, there are too many parallel threads right now, and I can’t remember who said/what in which thread. I am double posting this here and in Peter's thread.

Regardless, I think we are on the right track to define what “Field Herping” (also in my mind, and the following post, synonymous with “Herping”) is, and I do agree it is important that this activity, as in any activity, has a proper term.

To begin with, I see this term defining a hobby and state of mind, nothing more nothing less. I also see this equivalent to a mixture of birding, with a dash of fishing. A deeper look why:

A hobby is an activity someone does for fun on their own time. This means that professional herpetologists are not necessarily “Field Herping” when they are out collecting data. They are working. To illustrate this point, run into a herpetologist in the field and ask them what they are doing. They are not going to say “herping” “field herping” or any other synonym. They are going to tell you “working”, “collecting data for their research”, etc… Just like an ornithologist isn’t really birding or bird watching when they are doing their work, or an ichthyologist is not going to say fishing if they are collecting fish for research. But, the fact that they are collecting research and working doesn’t mean they aren’t also “field herping”, “birding”, etc… at the same time. For example, if you are collecting data on Lake Erie Water Snakes, you are also getting some field herping time in when you observe other non-research herp species. So, if you are not a professional herpetologists and you are still “Field Herping” even if you are collecting data for some reason, because you are doing it for fun on your own time (this is where part of the “state of mind” part I mentioned earlier comes into play).

Birding is a pastime activity where people go out to appreciate birds in the wild. It ranges the gamut from purely listers (only concerned about seeing the next new species) to someone who patiently observes birds and how they interact in the environment. The sole thing that makes this term trickier to compare to “Field Herping” is that all wild birds are hands-off, unless you have a hunting license and the bird is dead when in your possession, although before Peterson this wasn’t always the case. But, ask a grouse or duck hunter what they are doing and they will say “hunting”, not “birding”.

This is where I think the fishing part comes into play. There are plenty of people who go out to fish just to enjoy catching some fish, whether or not they keep any to bring home. Both activities though are still fishing. So I do not see collecting herps for various purposes as a disqualifier to “Field Herping”.

On a related side, I also believe there has to be some sort of underlining appreciation and dedication to herps for someone to be “Field Herping” So those people who search for herps for food, to commercial collect, to eradticate, etc… are not “Field Herping” because the only appreciation for the creature lies in it’s ability to keep the harvester alive, profit gains or the herp’s death. There is no appreciation of the herp for just being a herp.

In summary, I would define Field Herping as the hobby of observing and searching for wild reptiles motivated by a desire to enjoy and appreciate them.

Andy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 6:58 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
There's some interesting stuff being written, to be sure, but much that's in these more recent posts actually belongs in another current thread here on the message board or in threads that should be created by their authors. In other words, please don't hijack nor help others hijack this thread. I realize that there are certain people participating who don't respect me or anyone else here enough to abide by such request (and who have obvious reasons for trying to manipulate the conversation away from the thread's intended topic), but if you're not one such, please don't indulge them. As busy as the thread's been, I suspect there are nonetheless still a fair number of people who we haven't heard from and who would yet like to chime in if the discussion is not dragged off topic.

Getting back to the thread's actual topic now, do you think the term "field herping" should exclude animal collecting?

Thanks!

Gerry

gbin wrote:
That seems to be the opinion of at least a few frequent posters here, who appear to be using pretty much any thread in which they can find a way to promote the idea to wage an undeclared campaign on its behalf. A couple of people have even been acting as if the meaning of the term has already changed, i.e. it's a done deal, so live with it. When called on this, they then argue that there's some kind of groundswell of support for the idea ("Hey, it's not that I'm necessarily even for the change myself, but so many people have obviously already adopted it! What can anyone do but accept it?") - though it's obvious they're the ones bringing it up again, and again, and again... Rather than any kind of genuine popular movement, it looks to me as if it’s instead simply an idea that one particular faction of field herpers, namely those who disapprove of animal collecting in general enough that they don't want what they do to be associated with it, has grown inordinately fond of and is eager to push hard for no matter what anyone else might think.

Because I don't like hijacking others' threads to discuss/debate this kind of thing, and because I believe we'll get a more open, honest look at the situation by dedicating a thread to it, I thought I'd ask everyone here...

Should the term “field herping” exclude animal collecting?

I say definitely not. What makes sense to me:

    Field herping = having to do with herps in the field

    Herpetoculture = having to do with herps in captivity

    Herping = having do with herps wherever (so combining field herping and herpetoculture)

Besides being nonsensical, pretending that this or that person isn’t a field herper because of what s/he chooses to collect at the end of a given hunt (be it memories, photographs, notes on personal observations or other data, or animals) seems incredibly divisive to me, when all of us should be looking for ways to unite rather than further divide our community.

That’s what I think, anyway. What say you?...

(Mind you, I haven’t opened this thread to discuss/debate the pros and cons of animal collecting. If folks feel it’s time for yet another lengthy exchange on that subject, I’d rather you started your own thread for it. I’d like for this thread to focus simply on whether “field herping” should exclude animal collecting.)

Thanks!

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 7:01 am 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Posts: 7204
Location: Hesperia, California.
I agree Andy... it's the state of mind, or 'motivation' that defines us. In fact, I now recall that when we were all discussing this, before the crash, I further detailed this 'state of mind' into 'passive' and 'active' herping.
Every time I step outside my front door, I am passively 'herping'... everywhere I go, I scan the road/shoulders... every yard, field, valley or Mt I see, is viewed in the context of what herps it might have.
For instance... last year when giving a herp talk to a wilderness group, in Deep Creek, even as I was holding up a gopher snake, and talking about it, I was still scanning the creek and habitat for reptiles/amphibians... and had I seen one, I would have immediately switched modes to active 'field herping' and demonstrated that to the group, as well, as I had for the horned lizards, SB's and swifts we encountered on the way into and out of the creek.
Field herping is indeed more than going out in fields to look for herps... it is a mindset we carry with us always. :D jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 7:47 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
Jim, I don't think you ever answered, though I've asked you a few times now: Do you personally think the term "field herping" should exclude animal collecting? I remember you saying something about keeping two terms separate, but when I asked about that you never bothered to actually say what those terms were. :?

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 8:21 am 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 11:17 am
Posts: 1078
I've always called that incidental herping. Everytime I go out around the house I'll flip boards or tarps or whatever rocks around the house. I'm always scouting for stuff as I do yard work. This is the same thing as I drive to work or my work takes me to some remote place.

hellihooks wrote:
I agree Andy... it's the state of mind, or 'motivation' that defines us. In fact, I now recall that when we were all discussing this, before the crash, I further detailed this 'state of mind' into 'passive' and 'active' herping.
Every time I step outside my front door, I am passively 'herping'... everywhere I go, I scan the road/shoulders... every yard, field, valley or Mt I see, is viewed in the context of what herps it might have.
For instance... last year when giving a herp talk to a wilderness group, in Deep Creek, even as I was holding up a gopher snake, and talking about it, I was still scanning the creek and habitat for reptiles/amphibians... and had I seen one, I would have immediately switched modes to active 'field herping' and demonstrated that to the group, as well, as I had for the horned lizards, SB's and swifts we encountered on the way into and out of the creek.
Field herping is indeed more than going out in fields to look for herps... it is a mindset we carry with us always. :D jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 9:22 am 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 12:31 pm
Posts: 628
I've found a few of the recent posts (Jeremiah, Jim, Andy) pretty persuasive. Especially when Andy created an analogy to bird hunting versus birding, that was just about the clincher for me.

This thread continues to bear all sorts of fruits. :beer:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 9:30 am 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Posts: 7204
Location: Hesperia, California.
gbin wrote:
Jim, I don't think you ever answered, though I've asked you a few times now: Do you personally think the term "field herping" should exclude animal collecting? I remember you saying something about keeping two terms separate, but when I asked about that you never bothered to actually say what those terms were. :?

Gerry

I've told you already, in reply to your pm... but since you seem to really want it to be a matter of public record... no, I do not think the term field herping should mean no collecting.
One person's opinion does not matter though... it's when the vast majority of people feel a certain way, that a term might need redefining.
What if you had asked this question 10 or say 20 yrs ago? Folks would have said: "What... are you stupid?" Field herping MEANS collecting... :shock: Take pictures? that's not field herping... that's wildlife photography... :roll: "
In that's NOT the response you are getting today verifies that as the hobby changes, so necessarily does the meaning of the term describing it. Perhaps in another 20 yrs field herping WILL mean no collecting... who knows... but your 'head in the sand' attitude that the term has not and should never change defies reality.
I just came home to get my paint sprayer (which I forgot :roll: ) but the good news is I flipped a juvie desert swift at work this morning.... yayyyyyyyy! Another point on my distribution chart...AND... a nice little meal for my lyre snake... :crazyeyes: jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 1:28 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
hellihooks wrote:
I've told you already, in reply to your pm... but since you seem to really want it to be a matter of public record... no, I do not think the term field herping should mean no collecting.

Huh? You and I both know that you said no such thing by PM (nor did I ask you there, as what you wrote suggested). What you sent me by PM was sort of an answer to my question here, but sort of not - and in any event it suggested something very different than what you wrote above:

hellihooks wrote:
... I believe that the Nafha's stated standards are the wave of the future, as more and more folks go hands off and/or digital collection, with a minimum of collecting.
When I hear the term 'fieldherping'... data collection comes to mind 1st... when I'm out to collect feeders or specimens for my reptile talks, or even rd cruising...I'm herp-hunting, or herping.

Why be so weaselish or downright two-faced about things, Jim? Why not simply say what you truly think and be done with it? I really don't get it... :?

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 2:22 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:48 am
Posts: 213
Location: Boerne, TX
Daryl Eby wrote:
gbin wrote:
I'm afraid I just can't find anything to laugh about in that kind of behavior, Daryl... :(
It was sarcasm Gerry. Just my twisted way of making fun of those that are so desperate to disassociate themselves from the very foundation of herping that they would sooner steal a historically inclusive term than create a new one. Most of them owe their love of herps their own past collecting or that of others, yet they now stand in judgment of anyone that would remove a herp from the wild. Now some of them seem willing to change our language in an effort to excommunicate those with differing views. I don't get that, so I choose to mock it.


AMEN, Brother.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 5:16 pm 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Posts: 7204
Location: Hesperia, California.
gbin wrote:
hellihooks wrote:
I've told you already, in reply to your pm... but since you seem to really want it to be a matter of public record... no, I do not think the term field herping should mean no collecting.

Huh? You and I both know that you said no such thing by PM (nor did I ask you there, as what you wrote suggested). What you sent me by PM was sort of an answer to my question here, but sort of not - and in any event it suggested something very different than what you wrote above:

hellihooks wrote:
... I believe that the Nafha's stated standards are the wave of the future, as more and more folks go hands off and/or digital collection, with a minimum of collecting.
When I hear the term 'fieldherping'... data collection comes to mind 1st... when I'm out to collect feeders or specimens for my reptile talks, or even rd cruising...I'm herp-hunting, or herping.

Why be so weaselish or downright two-faced about things, Jim? Why not simply say what you truly think and be done with it? I really don't get it... :?

Gerry


No... you could get it, if you WANTED to... I've stated my position publicly and privately, trying not to be too rude, or blunt, but you seem to be unwilling to accept anything EXCEPT that I'm on some sort of campaign, as you said in the pm to me, after I VERY CLEARLY said I no longer cared to discuss it... :roll:

Second, with respect to how this matter lies between me and you: I understand that you're unhappy that I see what you've been doing as a kind of campaign. I recognize, too, that it actually might not be. But if it bothers you that I or anyone else might interpret your behavior that way, let me tell you why that's the way I see it. It's not the simple fact that you ever said that the term "field herping" might be evolving such that collecting is excluded (and if memory serves me correctly, used the term as if it had already evolved), but that you kept saying this again and again at various times and places. Adding qualifiers like "possibly" just makes it look to me like a weaselish campaign, not less like a campaign.
The germane parts of my reply, which you somehow left out.
My main point I've been trying to make is there may come a time, with the way fieldherping is evolving, that the word may relate (in the common vernacular) more accurately to the more current (rather than the historical) paradigm.
Bottom line... as fieldherping evolves, eventually the term will come to mean something else... and all I've been trying to say is that process has probably already begun... I KNOW it has for many Nafha Members, myself included.
Neither of us, or anyone else can either prevent nor accelerate this process... except by influencing people on 'how to herp'... and I doubt that the hobby will return to the days of 'more collecting'.


If I'm campaigning for anything... it is for the 'standards' employed by the NAFHA, as I have largely adopted them as my own personal standards period. end of story. If you have a problem with NAFHA's standards, or what the growth of the NAFHA might entail...post them on the Nafha Main forum, and please stop publicly and privately badgering me about this. jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 6:51 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
hellihooks wrote:
gbin wrote:
hellihooks wrote:
I've told you already, in reply to your pm... but since you seem to really want it to be a matter of public record... no, I do not think the term field herping should mean no collecting.

Huh? You and I both know that you said no such thing by PM (nor did I ask you there, as what you wrote suggested). What you sent me by PM was sort of an answer to my question here, but sort of not - and in any event it suggested something very different than what you wrote above:

hellihooks wrote:
... I believe that the Nafha's stated standards are the wave of the future, as more and more folks go hands off and/or digital collection, with a minimum of collecting.
When I hear the term 'fieldherping'... data collection comes to mind 1st... when I'm out to collect feeders or specimens for my reptile talks, or even rd cruising...I'm herp-hunting, or herping.

Why be so weaselish or downright two-faced about things, Jim? Why not simply say what you truly think and be done with it? I really don't get it... :?

Gerry

No... you could get it, if you WANTED to... I've stated my position publicly and privately, trying not to be too rude, or blunt, but you seem to be unwilling to accept anything EXCEPT that I'm on some sort of campaign, as you said in the pm to me, after I VERY CLEARLY said I no longer cared to discuss it... :roll:

Second, with respect to how this matter lies between me and you: I understand that you're unhappy that I see what you've been doing as a kind of campaign. I recognize, too, that it actually might not be. But if it bothers you that I or anyone else might interpret your behavior that way, let me tell you why that's the way I see it. It's not the simple fact that you ever said that the term "field herping" might be evolving such that collecting is excluded (and if memory serves me correctly, used the term as if it had already evolved), but that you kept saying this again and again at various times and places. Adding qualifiers like "possibly" just makes it look to me like a weaselish campaign, not less like a campaign.
The germane parts of my reply, which you somehow left out.
My main point I've been trying to make is there may come a time, with the way fieldherping is evolving, that the word may relate (in the common vernacular) more accurately to the more current (rather than the historical) paradigm.
Bottom line... as fieldherping evolves, eventually the term will come to mean something else... and all I've been trying to say is that process has probably already begun... I KNOW it has for many Nafha Members, myself included.
Neither of us, or anyone else can either prevent nor accelerate this process... except by influencing people on 'how to herp'... and I doubt that the hobby will return to the days of 'more collecting'.


If I'm campaigning for anything... it is for the 'standards' employed by the NAFHA, as I have largely adopted them as my own personal standards period. end of story. If you have a problem with NAFHA's standards, or what the growth of the NAFHA might entail...post them on the Nafha Main forum, and please stop publicly and privately badgering me about this. jim

In what I posted above, I left out everything but what was relevant to the topic of this thread, Jim, which is whether posters to it think the term "field herping" should exclude animal collecting. And I wouldn't have brought up our private communication at all except that you took it upon yourself to misrepresent it here.

And I don't have a problem with your personal view or anyone else's. Why should I? I might disagree with your view, but I would never say you had no right to it. I simply wanted (and still want) to see what folks' views are, whether I agree with them or not, yours included.

What I do have a problem with is the pervasive dishonesty in your posts here on this message board and in your PM to me in anything having to do with this subject. You campaign for a change in the meaning of the term "field herping" but pretend you're not. You pretend to have simply represented your view and answered the question asked in this thread when you haven't (until that very recent post of yours above, which contradicted what you'd just said to me privately). And most recently you've been pretending that our private exchange was something other than it was, and trimmed your presentation of it to fit your absurd, twisted view. Ok, let's bring the entire exchange here and let folks see who actually said what - and what their apparent motivations were and are. Badgering you, indeed... :crazyeyes:

My PM to you (unedited):

gbin wrote:
hellihooks wrote:
I won't bother them with this trifling matter, and I frankly don't care enough to argue further. All I ever said was that it was a possibility that the word could be evolving, but you could not accept that at face value, charging me with an agenda, and mounting a campaign, ect. never said anything bout excluding collection. Your post title should have read "Is the meaning of the word 'Field herping changing?" EVERYTHING else, was on your part, a conformational bias at work. My position should be ( :roll: ) clear... I'm done! jim And in case you can't comprehend that... I DON'T WISH TO DISCUSS THIS SUBJECT ANY LONGER, WITH YOU, OR ANYONE ELSE. GOSH!

Jim, it's fine with me if you don't want to continue discussing this subject. Heck, it would have been all right with me (though I would have been surprised), too, had you elected not to participate in my thread at all. I've no desire to unnecessarily push it with you, but I do want to explain a few things to you, in the hope that you'll understand both me and the situation a little clearer and not simply "go away mad."

First, that thread is not about you. Your recent behavior in the forum certainly played a part (but not by any means the sole part, nor necessarily even the biggest part) in why I decided to initiate it, but the thread is about the subject I said it was about from the outset, whether the term "field herping" should exclude collecting. Indeed, I took care not to identify you or any other person in discussing what prompted the thread specifically to avoid it being about you or anyone else. This issue has come up repeatedly in the relatively recent past (I don't even think you've been a participant every time it has done so, but I'm not sure), so I wanted to do my part to drag it out into the open and have it dealt with.

Second, with respect to how this matter lies between me and you: I understand that you're unhappy that I see what you've been doing as a kind of campaign. I recognize, too, that it actually might not be. But if it bothers you that I or anyone else might interpret your behavior that way, let me tell you why that's the way I see it. It's not the simple fact that you ever said that the term "field herping" might be evolving such that collecting is excluded (and if memory serves me correctly, used the term as if it had already evolved), but that you kept saying this again and again at various times and places. Adding qualifiers like "possibly" just makes it look to me like a weaselish campaign, not less like a campaign. Like those talking heads who run around to whatever television shows will give them airtime, saying things like "Now, I'm not saying that Obama is secretly a Muslim, but there certainly seem to be a number of people out there who see it as a possibility." Let me be clear: I'm using that as a deliberately outrageous (but unfortunately real-life) example, and I don't think of you as one of those abhorrent miscreants. So if you feel you're being misinterpreted when you post things like that, you might keep what I'm saying here in mind; when you give every appearance of carrying a banner for a cause, and especially when that banner wouldn't even be on the field if not for you, you're likely to be interpreted as campaigning for that cause no matter what you might say about why the banner is in your hands.

Third, with respect to any hard feelings that might remain between me and you: You're of course entitled to feel however you wish, and for whatever reason you wish, but please understand that I have no hard feelings toward you. On the contrary, I tend to think that you and I probably agree on a lot more than we disagree on, and whether that were true or not I nonetheless tend to think of you as a pretty good guy, a guy I could be friends with. Of course, all we know of each other is our postings to an internet forum, so we really don't know each other much at all, but that's how I see things at present. Whether we end up friends or something less, though, I won't do less than speak my mind freely and clearly with you. To me that is simply mature, sincere and respectful behavior. I tend to write passionately, I know, and many people mistakenly think that means I'm all emotionally affected toward them rather than merely toward the subject I'm addressing them about, but that is indeed a mistake on their part. If you watch (witness for example some past exchanges between me and Frank Retes), you'll see that when I take issue with someone personally then I make no bones about that, either; there's no mistaking then that I'm writing specifically about them rather than some other subject.

Anyway, I hope this helps in at least some small way, and I'll not chase after you about it in any event.

Gerry

Your response (unedited):

hellihooks wrote:
Gerry...
My main point I've been trying to make is there may come a time, with the way fieldherping is evolving, that the word may relate (in the common vernacular) more accurately to the more current (rather than the historical) paradigm. I believe that the Nafha's stated standards are the wave of the future, as more and more folks go hands off and/or digital collection, with a minimum of collecting.
When I hear the term 'fieldherping'... data collection comes to mind 1st... when I'm out to collect feeders or specimens for my reptile talks, or even rd cruising...I'm herp-hunting, or herping.

I must however admit, that I have been rather dismayed that very few Nafha members rallied to my support, in promoting Nafha's standards. Perhaps its that they already consider themselves as something other than 'herpers'... but rather, 'citizen scientists'. Perhaps they realize that there is too big a 'home field' advantage on the FHF and/or lack the cojones to 'take a stand'... :roll:
Bottom line... as fieldherping evolves, eventually the yerm will come to mean something else... and all I've been trying to say is that process has probably already begun... I KNOW it has for many Nafha Members, myself included.
Neither of us, or anyone else can either prevent nor accelerate this process... except by influencing people on 'how to herp'... and I doubt that the hobby will return to the days of 'more collecting'.
It is hard to separate strongly held beliefs from true critical appraisal... I kinda went off the deep end myself with JDM, when he suggested that people are more important than the ecosystems that support human life, and my emotions colored my impressions of what he was actually saying... and I believe that to a certain extent, the same thing may have happened with you, in regard to my replies. So yeah... It happens... :crazyeyes: So, no hard feelings, and I appreciate your efforts to 'clear the air'... well...back to work... :roll: l8r... jim

And that was the sum total of our private correspondence.

I'm tempted to just write you off as a nutcase, as you certainly give some indications of being such. But you've also repeatedly demonstrated here on the message board your interest in deceptive manipulation concerning the topic of this thread. I guess maybe this latest nonsense of yours is just more of the same, huh? With the goal this time being that since you couldn't make the discussion go the way you wanted it to, you'd instead make it full of bogus personal stuff so that people wouldn't want anything to do with it? I suppose you may have succeeded, given that I've felt it necessary to defend myself. If so, congratulations, I guess.

What a piece of work you are...

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Folks, I apologize for wasting all of your time with all of this personal stuff. I hope that you can understand my feeling the need to defend myself given what Jim's been posting (and I promise I'll let him have the last rant on it, which I'm sure he wants; I'm much more interested in getting back to our topic), but in any event, I hope you'll keep responding to the topic of this thread:

Do you think the term "field herping" should exclude animal collecting?

Thanks again!

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 8:49 pm 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Posts: 7204
Location: Hesperia, California.
You...defend YOURSELF??? :shock: :lol: :lol: ANYONE who has followed all these ethics-related posts KNOWS better. Posting pm's is a new low, (or perhaps a new high, for a 'flamer') but I stand by everything I've said, and the manner in which I've said it. I also stand on my reputation as a reasonable, rational, well-spoken person.
Sorry everyone, for letting this well-known 'flamer' provoke me... I asked him again and again to stop... but... :roll:
EVERYONE knows this whole thread was written directly at me, arising from statements I made on other threads, and it is an insult to everyone's intelligence to suggest otherwise.... why else would the title be specifically what you believe (and you admit in your pm) me to be campaigning for... rather than a 'general defining of herp terms?' Weasel your way out of that one, badger-boy.... :lol: :lol:
What's next... a poll asking who's the nut job, Gerry or Jim? Go for it dude. :lol: :lol: :lol:
BTW... as a tutor and supplemental instructor in Critical Thinking, your rampant use of logical fallacies and framing in your opening spiel was to be honest, fascinatingly repugnant, but (IMO) disallows your participation in any rational discourse... as does your obviously tenuous grasp on reality. (that means I'm done talking to you... :roll: ) PLEASE... leave me alone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 9:09 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 3:08 am
Posts: 572
Enough, gentleman. Bring this topic back on track and keep the private stuff.......private. None of this is necessary to make your points, unless the "point" is to sound like our modern day politicians whom have an approval rating in the teens.

Debate is healthy, and needed, but there is absolutely no reason (other than entertaining the rest of us) for this level of nasty discourse.

Thanks,
Scott


Top
 Profile WWW 
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 9:12 pm 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Posts: 7204
Location: Hesperia, California.
BTW, JDM,
I was going to send you a pm, to applogise for the temporary conformational bias, I suffered, towards you... but now that it's been made public, I'll do it publicly... sorry bout that. :roll: I appreciate what you've had to say, since then... :thumb: jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 9:29 pm 
User avatar

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Posts: 2146
So, getting back to business, I'd really like to hear from more of you:

Do you think the term "field herping" should exclude animal collecting?

Gerry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collectin
PostPosted: October 8th, 2011, 11:50 pm 
User avatar

Joined: May 14th, 2011, 11:16 pm
Posts: 1029
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Should the term "field herping" exclude animal collecting? = No, not in common parlance, at least not right now or for the foreseeable future.
Does the term "field herping" exclude animal collecting? = No.
Could the term "field herping" exclude animal collecting? = Yes, in certain organizational circumstances, as dictated by the term's usage in the context of that organization's aims.
Will the term "field herping" exclude animal collecting? = It's possible, but how the term shifts from a largely connotative set of meanings to a more fixed, denotative meaning, if that even happens, is probably dependent on too many factors to be able to make an accurate prediction.

For whatever's it's worth, I've been "field herping" since I was six years old. I didn't know there was a term for it, however, until April of this year. My exposure to Nafha, and these forums, has fundamentally changed my approach to the activity, in what I think are very positive ways.

JimM


Top
 Profile WWW 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 231 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: